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1sparkybuc

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#30 : December 19, 2012, 01:20:21 PM

Josh Freeman will soon own every record there is as a Buccaneer QB. He's done that despite changes in the coaching staff, changes in the scheme, pisspoor protection, and few experienced weapons. I'm willing to give him another year or two to see what he can do in a more stable environment. Too many are simply impatient.

That doesn't mean sh*t considering the poor offensive history of this organization.

I disagree. Freeman has posted better numbers under worse conditions than most any QB you can name. You'd have to go back to the first two seasons to find a more dysfunctional OL. Many who are now calling for Freeman's head are the same people who stated Raheem and Olson were totally unqualified for their positions. You can't hold that position and still claim the playbook and scheme were up to standard. You can't discount the 10 wins in 2010 and then say wins are all that's important and stats are not. Stats indicate ability and potential for the future. For his first three years Freeman played on the least experienced team in the league. That is changing. It makes no sense for those players to have to start all over again from scratch with a rookie QB. Freeman finally has some weapons. Given a decent OL (replace Penn, Dotson, and get a dominating C) and a second year in the same system, and Freeman should be at his best. There would then be no more excuses.

With even an average defense the Bucs would have been a playoff team in Greg Schiano's first year as HC. Every game was close with the exception of this last game against the Saints. They took out their frustration on the Bucs. Key injuries and simply a lack of talent doomed this team. The fact that the team exceeded expectations (13 games with 7 close losses) for most of you, makes the last two losses harder to take. No matter what happens in the last two games, I believe 2013 will be a playoff year for the Bucs with Josh Freeman at QB.

I predicted a minimum of 9 wins this season, not knowing who would be lost to IR. I'm confident that would have happened with just Nicks, Joseph, and Clayborn healthy. We're due for a healthy year. 

chace1986

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#31 : December 19, 2012, 01:33:45 PM

So if they win the last 2, everything is A-OK?    Not hardly.
Why wouldn't everything be ok?





Meant as in Freeman.  Say he looks good the last 2.  Then all is good?   Too much up and down with the guy for being a 4th year guy. When he was playing well there for a stretch, I was hoping that would continue right through the end of the season.  No such luck.
What you thought he was going to throw 4 TD's every game? Did you think Gerald McCoy was going to get 2 sacks every game after playing the Cowboys? Every QB other than P Manning, Brady, and Rodgers is up and down over the course of a season. If Freeman is able to rebound and throw at least 3 TD's over the last two games, throw 2 or fewer INT's, and average around 225 yards in each game, he'll have shown he can correct his mistakes, overcome adversity, and have an overall very good season.





The only part I would disagree with, is Freeman's lows are Grand Canyon type lows.  Sure Brady and Peyton have off games.  But they are not Sanchez/Tebow type off games.  Freeman seems capable of the lowest of low "off" games.

Neither are Freeman's. The only game where he looked like Sanchez was this week against the Saints. The Cowboys game was really bad too. But, that's only 2 awful games.

I don't know why everyone claims that his bad games are so awful. They really aren't. An awful game for a QB is when you are turning the ball over a lot. Freeman has only turned the ball over more than once in a game 3 times this season.

Drew Brees and Eli Manning have done it 5 times. Tony Romo has 2 games where has thrown 4 or more INT's. Matt Ryan has 2 games where has thrown 3 or more INT's.

Oh ok...so essentially, a throw isn't a bad throw unless its intercepted.

Nevermind that Freeman threw 2-3 balls right into the hands of Eagles defenders and they dropped the would be ints.

QBs don't have awful games unless they are turning the ball over...what a load of crap.

Nope, never said that.

Dude, all QB's throw passes that should be picked, but don't. Are you being serious here? Come on.

And yes, if a QB doesn't turnover the ball, I usually don't consider it an awful game, unless he does absolutely nothing and can't move the offense.

And chace, I've watched every single snap this season. You seem to have an awfully hard time comprehending information. I've said multiple times that Freeman is inconsistent and doesn't look good at times, but you guys are overreacting to how bad his bad games are.

Ok well now you modified what you said. Which was that QBs only have awful games if they turn the ball over a lot. Now an awful game is a lot of turnovers or not being able to move the offense. The modification to your opinion was necessary because Freeman's one turnover vs. Dallas was off the hands of DJ ware, and that would mean that he really didn't have an awful game, if looking at it from that previous perspective.

Oh yea, I'm not denying that QBs are aided by DBs dropping picks, I was just saying that just because Freeman didn't have any picks in the Philly game, doesn't mean that he wasn't throwing awful passes for a large portion of that game.

An overreaction would be to say "let's that ship him out now!". I'm not doing that. I'm all for giving him next year....but I won't do what you are doing and skim over his inadequacies because his stat line happens to be favorable.

Freeman was awful against Dallas. Our offense couldn't do jack**CENSORED** all day while the defense played a great game.

I don't think anyone is denying that Freeman hasn't looked too good the past few weeks. All I'm saying is if you look at his season overall, he's had a solid season and his bad games haven't been nearly as bad as most people claim them to be (other than Dallas and New Orleans the second time).

I think he was good for 5 games, average for 3 games, below average for 4 games, and awful for 2 games. That's just how I see it when looking at the games and how Freeman performs throughout the whole game. I would like to see him succeed, but I have not hope that it will happen.


chace1986

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#32 : December 19, 2012, 01:47:50 PM

Josh Freeman will soon own every record there is as a Buccaneer QB. He's done that despite changes in the coaching staff, changes in the scheme, pisspoor protection, and few experienced weapons. I'm willing to give him another year or two to see what he can do in a more stable environment. Too many are simply impatient.

That doesn't mean sh*t considering the poor offensive history of this organization.

I disagree. Freeman has posted better numbers under worse conditions than most any QB you can name. You'd have to go back to the first two seasons to find a more dysfunctional OL. Many who are now calling for Freeman's head are the same people who stated Raheem and Olson were totally unqualified for their positions. You can't hold that position and still claim the playbook and scheme were up to standard. You can't discount the 10 wins in 2010 and then say wins are all that's important and stats are not. Stats indicate ability and potential for the future. For his first three years Freeman played on the least experienced team in the league. That is changing. It makes no sense for those players to have to start all over again from scratch with a rookie QB. Freeman finally has some weapons. Given a decent OL (replace Penn, Dotson, and get a dominating C) and a second year in the same system, and Freeman should be at his best. There would then be no more excuses.

With even an average defense the Bucs would have been a playoff team in Greg Schiano's first year as HC. Every game was close with the exception of this last game against the Saints. They took out their frustration on the Bucs. Key injuries and simply a lack of talent doomed this team. The fact that the team exceeded expectations (13 games with 7 close losses) for most of you, makes the last two losses harder to take. No matter what happens in the last two games, I believe 2013 will be a playoff year for the Bucs with Josh Freeman at QB.

I predicted a minimum of 9 wins this season, not knowing who would be lost to IR. I'm confident that would have happened with just Nicks, Joseph, and Clayborn healthy. We're due for a healthy year.

You said nothing here that countered what I said about the offensive history of the Bucs and where Freeman sits in the Bucs record books. While it may be a nice consolation price for you that "Josh Freeman will soon own every record there is as a Buccaneer QB", it means nothing. You think Freeman the last 5 years has had a worse OL than any other Bucs team in franchise history?

The defense has been awful, but they too have played well enough to win a few more games this year. They played their best game against the Cowboys and they did a good enough job to have beaten ATL. Freeman certainly does not deserve the majority of the blame for most of the Bucs losses, but he has shown many concerning things in most games this year. The last month, he has pretty much reverted back to '11 Josh. We still don't know what Josh is...will we ever?


Chief Joseph

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#33 : December 19, 2012, 02:07:26 PM

Single Season Records
Passing

Attempts: 570, Brad Johnson (2003)
Completions: 354, Brad Johnson (2003)
Completion Percentage: 69.3 (233-336), Brian Griese (2004)
Yards: 3,811, Brad Johnson (2003)
Touchdowns: 26, Brad Johnson (2003)
Interceptions: 35, Vinny Testaverde (1988)
Rating (minimum 100 attempts): 97.5, Brian Griese (2004)

Single Game Records
Passing

Attempts: 67, Brian Griese, at Chicago Bears, 9/21/08 Completions: 40, Brad Johnson, vs. Chicago Bears, 11/18/01
Completion Percentage: 88.0% (22-25), Vinny Testaverde, vs. Green Bay Packers, 9/13/92
Yards: 486, Doug Williams, at Minnesota Vikings, 11/16/80
Long: 95 yards, Josh Freeman, vs. New Orleans Saints, 10/21/12
Touchdowns: 5, Brad Johnson, vs. Minnesota Vikings, 11/3/02, Josh Freeman, vs. Seattle, 12/26/10
Interceptions: 7, Steve DeBerg, vs. San Francisco 49ers, 9/7/86

Team Records
Passing

Attempts: 2,160, Vinny Testaverde (1987-1992)
Completions: 1,126, Vinny Testaverde (1987-1992)
Yards: 14,820, Vinny Testaverde (1987-1992)
Touchdowns: 77, Vinny Testaverde (1987-1992)
Interceptions: 112, Vinny Testaverde (1987-1992)
Rating (500+ attempts): 92.2, Jeff Garcia (2007-2008)

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

JDouble

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#34 : December 20, 2012, 08:41:55 AM

That game verse the Bears in 08' when Griese had 67 attempts was a fun game. I think we lost in overtime if I remember correctly.


1sparkybuc

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#35 : December 20, 2012, 11:53:09 AM

Josh Freeman will soon own every record there is as a Buccaneer QB. He's done that despite changes in the coaching staff, changes in the scheme, pisspoor protection, and few experienced weapons. I'm willing to give him another year or two to see what he can do in a more stable environment. Too many are simply impatient.

That doesn't mean sh*t considering the poor offensive history of this organization.

I disagree. Freeman has posted better numbers under worse conditions than most any QB you can name. You'd have to go back to the first two seasons to find a more dysfunctional OL. Many who are now calling for Freeman's head are the same people who stated Raheem and Olson were totally unqualified for their positions. You can't hold that position and still claim the playbook and scheme were up to standard. You can't discount the 10 wins in 2010 and then say wins are all that's important and stats are not. Stats indicate ability and potential for the future. For his first three years Freeman played on the least experienced team in the league. That is changing. It makes no sense for those players to have to start all over again from scratch with a rookie QB. Freeman finally has some weapons. Given a decent OL (replace Penn, Dotson, and get a dominating C) and a second year in the same system, and Freeman should be at his best. There would then be no more excuses.

With even an average defense the Bucs would have been a playoff team in Greg Schiano's first year as HC. Every game was close with the exception of this last game against the Saints. They took out their frustration on the Bucs. Key injuries and simply a lack of talent doomed this team. The fact that the team exceeded expectations (13 games with 7 close losses) for most of you, makes the last two losses harder to take. No matter what happens in the last two games, I believe 2013 will be a playoff year for the Bucs with Josh Freeman at QB.

I predicted a minimum of 9 wins this season, not knowing who would be lost to IR. I'm confident that would have happened with just Nicks, Joseph, and Clayborn healthy. We're due for a healthy year.

You said nothing here that countered what I said about the offensive history of the Bucs and where Freeman sits in the Bucs record books. While it may be a nice consolation price for you that "Josh Freeman will soon own every record there is as a Buccaneer QB", it means nothing. You think Freeman the last 5 years has had a worse OL than any other Bucs team in franchise history?

The defense has been awful, but they too have played well enough to win a few more games this year. They played their best game against the Cowboys and they did a good enough job to have beaten ATL. Freeman certainly does not deserve the majority of the blame for most of the Bucs losses, but he has shown many concerning things in most games this year. The last month, he has pretty much reverted back to '11 Josh. We still don't know what Josh is...will we ever?

The offensive history of the Bucs has been pathetic. There has never been any consistency. There is still no consistency but at least there have been flashes of greatness from Freeman and Doug Martin. We have VJ and MW. Great offenses are known for having a trio as a foundation. I believe we have four when you include MW. I also believe Greg Schiano is the perfect HC for the Bucs. He will attack team issues just like he did when he got here. Expect some changes in the coaching staff as well as upgrades in player personnel. The Bucs will be a playoff team next year, and Freeman will be a big part of it. He won't be perfect. Nobody is. Plug a few holes and a full year in the system, and this team can dominate. For those who are seeking instant gratification, it's going to be tough. It might be another year or two before the Bucs win another SB.

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#36 : December 20, 2012, 12:00:01 PM


 " There would then be no more excuses."

Call me skeptical.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

chace1986

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#37 : December 20, 2012, 12:07:36 PM

Josh Freeman will soon own every record there is as a Buccaneer QB. He's done that despite changes in the coaching staff, changes in the scheme, pisspoor protection, and few experienced weapons. I'm willing to give him another year or two to see what he can do in a more stable environment. Too many are simply impatient.

That doesn't mean sh*t considering the poor offensive history of this organization.

I disagree. Freeman has posted better numbers under worse conditions than most any QB you can name. You'd have to go back to the first two seasons to find a more dysfunctional OL. Many who are now calling for Freeman's head are the same people who stated Raheem and Olson were totally unqualified for their positions. You can't hold that position and still claim the playbook and scheme were up to standard. You can't discount the 10 wins in 2010 and then say wins are all that's important and stats are not. Stats indicate ability and potential for the future. For his first three years Freeman played on the least experienced team in the league. That is changing. It makes no sense for those players to have to start all over again from scratch with a rookie QB. Freeman finally has some weapons. Given a decent OL (replace Penn, Dotson, and get a dominating C) and a second year in the same system, and Freeman should be at his best. There would then be no more excuses.

With even an average defense the Bucs would have been a playoff team in Greg Schiano's first year as HC. Every game was close with the exception of this last game against the Saints. They took out their frustration on the Bucs. Key injuries and simply a lack of talent doomed this team. The fact that the team exceeded expectations (13 games with 7 close losses) for most of you, makes the last two losses harder to take. No matter what happens in the last two games, I believe 2013 will be a playoff year for the Bucs with Josh Freeman at QB.

I predicted a minimum of 9 wins this season, not knowing who would be lost to IR. I'm confident that would have happened with just Nicks, Joseph, and Clayborn healthy. We're due for a healthy year.

You said nothing here that countered what I said about the offensive history of the Bucs and where Freeman sits in the Bucs record books. While it may be a nice consolation price for you that "Josh Freeman will soon own every record there is as a Buccaneer QB", it means nothing. You think Freeman the last 5 years has had a worse OL than any other Bucs team in franchise history?

The defense has been awful, but they too have played well enough to win a few more games this year. They played their best game against the Cowboys and they did a good enough job to have beaten ATL. Freeman certainly does not deserve the majority of the blame for most of the Bucs losses, but he has shown many concerning things in most games this year. The last month, he has pretty much reverted back to '11 Josh. We still don't know what Josh is...will we ever?

The offensive history of the Bucs has been pathetic. There has never been any consistency. There is still no consistency but at least there have been flashes of greatness from Freeman and Doug Martin. We have VJ and MW. Great offenses are known for having a trio as a foundation. I believe we have four when you include MW. I also believe Greg Schiano is the perfect HC for the Bucs. He will attack team issues just like he did when he got here. Expect some changes in the coaching staff as well as upgrades in player personnel. The Bucs will be a playoff team next year, and Freeman will be a big part of it. He won't be perfect. Nobody is. Plug a few holes and a full year in the system, and this team can dominate. For those who are seeking instant gratification, it's going to be tough. It might be another year or two before the Bucs win another SB.

Well you certainly have more hope than I. If all that happened, then great. Personally, I just don't see it happening. We shall see.


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#38 : December 20, 2012, 12:32:46 PM

Josh Freeman will soon own every record there is as a Buccaneer QB. He's done that despite changes in the coaching staff, changes in the scheme, pisspoor protection, and few experienced weapons. I'm willing to give him another year or two to see what he can do in a more stable environment. Too many are simply impatient.

That doesn't mean sh*t considering the poor offensive history of this organization.

I disagree. Freeman has posted better numbers under worse conditions than most any QB you can name. You'd have to go back to the first two seasons to find a more dysfunctional OL. Many who are now calling for Freeman's head are the same people who stated Raheem and Olson were totally unqualified for their positions. You can't hold that position and still claim the playbook and scheme were up to standard. You can't discount the 10 wins in 2010 and then say wins are all that's important and stats are not. Stats indicate ability and potential for the future. For his first three years Freeman played on the least experienced team in the league. That is changing. It makes no sense for those players to have to start all over again from scratch with a rookie QB. Freeman finally has some weapons. Given a decent OL (replace Penn, Dotson, and get a dominating C) and a second year in the same system, and Freeman should be at his best. There would then be no more excuses.

With even an average defense the Bucs would have been a playoff team in Greg Schiano's first year as HC. Every game was close with the exception of this last game against the Saints. They took out their frustration on the Bucs. Key injuries and simply a lack of talent doomed this team. The fact that the team exceeded expectations (13 games with 7 close losses) for most of you, makes the last two losses harder to take. No matter what happens in the last two games, I believe 2013 will be a playoff year for the Bucs with Josh Freeman at QB.

I predicted a minimum of 9 wins this season, not knowing who would be lost to IR. I'm confident that would have happened with just Nicks, Joseph, and Clayborn healthy. We're due for a healthy year.

You said nothing here that countered what I said about the offensive history of the Bucs and where Freeman sits in the Bucs record books. While it may be a nice consolation price for you that "Josh Freeman will soon own every record there is as a Buccaneer QB", it means nothing. You think Freeman the last 5 years has had a worse OL than any other Bucs team in franchise history?

The defense has been awful, but they too have played well enough to win a few more games this year. They played their best game against the Cowboys and they did a good enough job to have beaten ATL. Freeman certainly does not deserve the majority of the blame for most of the Bucs losses, but he has shown many concerning things in most games this year. The last month, he has pretty much reverted back to '11 Josh. We still don't know what Josh is...will we ever?

The offensive history of the Bucs has been pathetic. There has never been any consistency. There is still no consistency but at least there have been flashes of greatness from Freeman and Doug Martin. We have VJ and MW. Great offenses are known for having a trio as a foundation. I believe we have four when you include MW. I also believe Greg Schiano is the perfect HC for the Bucs. He will attack team issues just like he did when he got here. Expect some changes in the coaching staff as well as upgrades in player personnel. The Bucs will be a playoff team next year, and Freeman will be a big part of it. He won't be perfect. Nobody is. Plug a few holes and a full year in the system, and this team can dominate. For those who are seeking instant gratification, it's going to be tough. It might be another year or two before the Bucs win another SB.

Well you certainly have more hope than I. If all that happened, then great. Personally, I just don't see it happening. We shall see.

Agree Sparky. I think they will make playoffs next year too.
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