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jhop88

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#75 : December 18, 2012, 06:37:54 PM

Can we all agree on one thing at least?!

Josh Freeman is now ranked 31st in the league in completion %. Say what you want, but a 4th year QB who is supposed to be a "franchise QB" should have a better completion % than 54.8%. I mean, even sorry a** Christian Ponder has a 63.1% completion percentage this season.

This is my biggest issue w/Freeman. Yes, he throws a good deep ball. Eventually and I think we're seeing it lately, defenses are gonna take away your strenghts and you have to adapt...ie, throw slants, out routes, curls, etc. Until Freeman proves he can complete these types of passes on a consistent basis, I think he'll be stuck in the "average" category for QBs in the NFL. Call

And with that he is 7th in the league in td's and 11th in fewest ints. And even after a shutout, we are still top 10 in scoring. (That's better than Seattle, Baltimore, Green Bay, Minnesota, Indianapolis and Pittsburgh.) Offensively, our inconsistent QB has allowed us to put up more points than 22 other teams.  You can see how completion % is the key stat, right! ::) Or is our 22nd ranked scoring defense more of an issue?

In crunch time, the L4 games, the offense has scored 67 pts...how's that working out?

Say what you want about this defense, it's bad, but the offense has lost just as many games as this defense has IMO. Looking at the 8 losses, the only one I put squarely on the defense is the Giants game.

The Anti-Java

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#76 : December 18, 2012, 07:07:32 PM

Flacco would be a lateral move IMO.

A Rivers/Freeman battle in training camp would be interesting.

I don't think Alex Smith is the answer unless Harbough comes with him as a package deal.


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PewterReportMC....
\\\\\\\"Java, do you understand this a perfect example of why people beg me to suspend or ban you on a daily basis? Are you actually trying to make a point? Seriously what is the reason for even commenting. In fact why do you even bother coming to the boards? What happened to the intelligent poster from years ago?  A real shame. Like the Bucs yesterday, a wasted effort.\\\\\\\"

NovaBuc

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#77 : December 18, 2012, 07:28:15 PM

I did complain about his accuracy or lack thereof.

And not to sound rude, but are you bad at reading comprehension? The 12 TDs in 9 games isn't bad, the 12 TDs and 11 INTs in 9 games is a terrible TD/INT ratio.

 Problem is, unless the QB is named Manning, Brady or Rogers you can find that sort of stretch for just about every other QB in the league this year. Brees, 19/16 ratio in 9 games, Dalton 13/13 in 9 games, Ryan 13/13 in 9 games - those are just the guys with more TD passes than Freeman. It gets worse when we go with guys who have thrown less TDs than him. Fitzpatrick 10/12 in 9 games, Palmer 10/10 in 9 games, Rivers 13/14 in 9 games, Romo 11/16 in 9 games, Flacco 15/10 in 9 games, Luck 13/17 in 9 games, Eli 13/15 in 9 games, Newton 7/10 in 9 games, Cutler 7/13 in 9 games, Wilson 9/9 in 9 games... in fact, the only guys you can't find 9 games with just barely more TDs than INTS or worse are Manning, Brady, Rogers, Roethlisberger and RGIII this year (for QBs who have played/started more than 9 games). Of those, the only QBs who have more TDs than INTs are Brees, Flacco and Freeman. Lesson being, you can't cherry pick games to prove your point. With every QB (and player for that matter) you have to take the good with the bad. Is Freeman inconsistent? Of course he is. But he's not wildly worse than the rest of the league as some seem to be saying.

jhop88

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#78 : December 18, 2012, 11:16:31 PM

I did complain about his accuracy or lack thereof.

And not to sound rude, but are you bad at reading comprehension? The 12 TDs in 9 games isn't bad, the 12 TDs and 11 INTs in 9 games is a terrible TD/INT ratio.

 Problem is, unless the QB is named Manning, Brady or Rogers you can find that sort of stretch for just about every other QB in the league this year. Brees, 19/16 ratio in 9 games, Dalton 13/13 in 9 games, Ryan 13/13 in 9 games - those are just the guys with more TD passes than Freeman. It gets worse when we go with guys who have thrown less TDs than him. Fitzpatrick 10/12 in 9 games, Palmer 10/10 in 9 games, Rivers 13/14 in 9 games, Romo 11/16 in 9 games, Flacco 15/10 in 9 games, Luck 13/17 in 9 games, Eli 13/15 in 9 games, Newton 7/10 in 9 games, Cutler 7/13 in 9 games, Wilson 9/9 in 9 games... in fact, the only guys you can't find 9 games with just barely more TDs than INTS or worse are Manning, Brady, Rogers, Roethlisberger and RGIII this year (for QBs who have played/started more than 9 games). Of those, the only QBs who have more TDs than INTs are Brees, Flacco and Freeman. Lesson being, you can't cherry pick games to prove your point. With every QB (and player for that matter) you have to take the good with the bad. Is Freeman inconsistent? Of course he is. But he's not wildly worse than the rest of the league as some seem to be saying.

Doesn't make it any less terrible. Just because other QBs went 12 TDs and 11 INTs (or slightly better or slightly worse) doesn't change the fact that over a span of 64% of the season so far, Freeman's TD/INT ratio is not good. 12 and 11 never was and never will be considered a good TD/INT ratio.

And of those guys you mentioned w/their 9-game stretch ratios, the only QBs I would consider "really good to great" are Ryan, Brees, and Eli. If Josh Freeman can never become better than the likes of Fitzpatrick, Palmer, Flacco, Cutler, etc, than this franchise is in for a long 10 or so years.

In general, I'm so tired of the excuses for Freeman. His rookie year it was "well, he's a rookie." His 2nd year, it was "see, look what this guy can do." Last season it was "well, the whole team stinks...the OC is awful (even though it was the same OC he had in his 2nd season)." And now this season it's "well, this is his 1st year w/Sullivan...the defense stinks." I'm tired of the excuses. People act like other really good to elite QBs in the NFL have a perfect team around them. NEWS FLASH, they don't.

If you look at Freeman's numbers in the 8 losses this season, he has 11 TDs and 9 INTs and his completion % in 4 of those games is bad to atrocious. In the 6 wins, 14 TDs and 3 INTs...interesting. Again, people can blame this defense all they want, the offense and specifically Josh Freeman is a big reason this team has 8 losses this season. The Dallas loss, terrible offense...the Skins loss, bad offense...the Falcons loss, wasted chances on offense...the Denver loss, terrible offense until late in the 4th qtr...the Eagles loss, atrocious offense until they got lucky and Johnson muffed a punt at thr 5-yd line...the Saints loss, possibly the worst game I've seen from Freeman since his rookie season.

IMO, this team was built around offense in the offseason which makes the past 4 weeks even more disappointing for me. At 6-4, this team had a real chance to make the playoffs, but the offense decided it didn't have to finish out the season strong.

ryan24

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#79 : December 18, 2012, 11:47:43 PM

Freeman hasn't played well lately. His YPA...arguably a more important stat than completion pct.... is 12th in the league right behind Matt Schaub who is considered a pretty good QB. It's right in front of Eli Manning who an argument is had as to whether he's an elite QB or not. If one wishes to replace the QB we need to have some conjecture as to who it should be because I don't see a definitive upgrade. The defense, on the other hand, is far more a need to fix on an overall performance basis.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

NovaBuc

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#80 : December 19, 2012, 12:33:40 AM

I did complain about his accuracy or lack thereof.

And not to sound rude, but are you bad at reading comprehension? The 12 TDs in 9 games isn't bad, the 12 TDs and 11 INTs in 9 games is a terrible TD/INT ratio.

 Problem is, unless the QB is named Manning, Brady or Rogers you can find that sort of stretch for just about every other QB in the league this year. Brees, 19/16 ratio in 9 games, Dalton 13/13 in 9 games, Ryan 13/13 in 9 games - those are just the guys with more TD passes than Freeman. It gets worse when we go with guys who have thrown less TDs than him. Fitzpatrick 10/12 in 9 games, Palmer 10/10 in 9 games, Rivers 13/14 in 9 games, Romo 11/16 in 9 games, Flacco 15/10 in 9 games, Luck 13/17 in 9 games, Eli 13/15 in 9 games, Newton 7/10 in 9 games, Cutler 7/13 in 9 games, Wilson 9/9 in 9 games... in fact, the only guys you can't find 9 games with just barely more TDs than INTS or worse are Manning, Brady, Rogers, Roethlisberger and RGIII this year (for QBs who have played/started more than 9 games). Of those, the only QBs who have more TDs than INTs are Brees, Flacco and Freeman. Lesson being, you can't cherry pick games to prove your point. With every QB (and player for that matter) you have to take the good with the bad. Is Freeman inconsistent? Of course he is. But he's not wildly worse than the rest of the league as some seem to be saying.

Doesn't make it any less terrible. Just because other QBs went 12 TDs and 11 INTs (or slightly better or slightly worse) doesn't change the fact that over a span of 64% of the season so far, Freeman's TD/INT ratio is not good. 12 and 11 never was and never will be considered a good TD/INT ratio.

And of those guys you mentioned w/their 9-game stretch ratios, the only QBs I would consider "really good to great" are Ryan, Brees, and Eli. If Josh Freeman can never become better than the likes of Fitzpatrick, Palmer, Flacco, Cutler, etc, than this franchise is in for a long 10 or so years.

In general, I'm so tired of the excuses for Freeman. His rookie year it was "well, he's a rookie." His 2nd year, it was "see, look what this guy can do." Last season it was "well, the whole team stinks...the OC is awful (even though it was the same OC he had in his 2nd season)." And now this season it's "well, this is his 1st year w/Sullivan...the defense stinks." I'm tired of the excuses. People act like other really good to elite QBs in the NFL have a perfect team around them. NEWS FLASH, they don't.

If you look at Freeman's numbers in the 8 losses this season, he has 11 TDs and 9 INTs and his completion % in 4 of those games is bad to atrocious. In the 6 wins, 14 TDs and 3 INTs...interesting. Again, people can blame this defense all they want, the offense and specifically Josh Freeman is a big reason this team has 8 losses this season. The Dallas loss, terrible offense...the Skins loss, bad offense...the Falcons loss, wasted chances on offense...the Denver loss, terrible offense until late in the 4th qtr...the Eagles loss, atrocious offense until they got lucky and Johnson muffed a punt at thr 5-yd line...the Saints loss, possibly the worst game I've seen from Freeman since his rookie season.

IMO, this team was built around offense in the offseason which makes the past 4 weeks even more disappointing for me. At 6-4, this team had a real chance to make the playoffs, but the offense decided it didn't have to finish out the season strong.

 You've missed my point entirely. All of the QBs listed, including those elite ones have similar or worse TD/Interception ratios when looking at 9 of their games this season (or 64% of the season as you want to put it). There's only 5 QBs in the league with 9 or more starts/games that you can't piece together 9 games from this season to show a poor td/int ratio or one that's in Freeman's range. For the most part, his ratio is better than the Fitzpatrick, Cutler, etc.. when choosing 9 games. Point being, Freeman is on par with the overwhelming majority of the NFL and for everyone saying how horrible he is, what's the solution? Who do we get to replace him? It's one thing to say he sucks and we need a new QB but seriously, who out there is going to be an improvement?

  In the Denver game I'd have to disagree with you about the offense, they did fairly well in the first half, in fact outside of a disastrous third quarter the Bucs as a team pretty much held their own against the Broncos. Skins loss, Falcons loss and Eagles loss the defense failed to hold onto a lead that the offense and Freeman had given them late in the game. Can quibble about the offensive performance/Freeman's performance as a whole in those games but in no way can you blame him or the offense solely for the losses in at least three of the games. Cowboys game is definitely on Freeman, Saints is mostly Freeman but it's not like the defense is totally blameless - and by defense I mostly mean the secondary.

BucsFTW

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#81 : December 19, 2012, 06:04:53 AM

Leo Howell is really reaching in this blog post.

I like how he states "Free To Go", as if its a foregone conclusion...  Possibly one of the WORST artices Ive ever seen written.

Amazing how many Monday morning GMs make idiotic statements like this - but offer ZERO quality solutions!

There's not one single option out there, either through free agency or the draft, that I'd rather have than Freeman...

(The problem is much bigger than just 1 man...)


Morgan

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#82 : December 24, 2012, 12:09:26 PM

Whatever the Bucs do, I hope to hell they don't do this.....



Java, did you make it to the game afterall?
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