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TheAman

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#15 : December 18, 2012, 01:21:59 PM

So...the premise of this thread is that Bucs fans are saying use every pick in the draft on a QB, and completely forget about the bad defense.  I'm pretty sure nobody is saying that.  Obviously the defense sucks.  But guess what?  Freeman is mediocre.  The two are not mutually exclusive.

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#16 : December 18, 2012, 01:26:04 PM

So...the premise of this thread is that Bucs fans are saying use every pick in the draft on a QB, and completely forget about the bad defense.  I'm pretty sure nobody is saying that.  Obviously the defense sucks.  But guess what? Freeman is mediocre[b/].  The two are not mutually exclusive.

In the 9 games after the bye week he had 20 TDs and 4 INTs but only went 5-4 because of the crap defense. Then you have fans blaming Freeman for not winning games.


: December 18, 2012, 01:27:41 PM JC5100

BucBalla85

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#17 : December 18, 2012, 01:26:51 PM

If the defense sucks your not likely to win with a mediocre QB. Fans expect their QBs to be elite when they arent. Elite QBs win regardless of the defense. Freeman is not elite. 

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#18 : December 18, 2012, 01:27:24 PM


The only two options are all Freeman's fault, or all the D's fault and Free is therefore blameless. Lol.

If you look up "faulty logic," you'll find the false dichotomy most prominent.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

BucBalla85

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#19 : December 18, 2012, 01:30:33 PM

Its a team game. Freeman is at fault WITH the defense. Fix both and you got something cooking. Thing I argue is, Who you gonna get at QB? Dont look like many options.

I argue that if this team had a decent defense they would be in the playoffs. We dont. Were last in the league in the pass and near the bottom in pass rush. You just dont win many games in a passing league with that. Especially without an Elite QB. Were not in position to get an elite guy. If there is any out there that you know of please let us know. Wed love to have him.
: December 18, 2012, 01:34:47 PM BucBalla85

TheAman

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#20 : December 18, 2012, 01:37:58 PM

I mean, for the games that the defense certainly lost, there are games that can be put squarely on Freeman for his poor play.  While yes, the defense gave up the final drive in the Skins and Eagles games, if Freeman had done literally anything in the first half, both games would've been well out of reach at that point.  So yes, he is indeed a problem on this team.

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#21 : December 18, 2012, 01:38:31 PM

Elite QBs win regardless of the defense. Freeman is not elite.

Exactly. Brees has his team in the playoffs despite a crappy D. Right?

How many elite QBs would have been able to overcome the worst pass D in the history of the NFL?

If we can find somebody better than Free, I'm all for it. At the very least, they need to bring in a solid back-up who can take over if Free falters again next year. I have no excuses for
him the past few games. Even with the crap D.


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#22 : December 18, 2012, 01:42:44 PM

After having watched him, I can say that stats do not tell the entire story. 

Would you trust Freeman to win us a big game?  When has he beaten a quality foe?

Have you seen him throw the damn ball?  He can chuck it a country mile, look at Vincent Jacksons numbers, but that guy cannot make the routine throws.  He cannot read a field.  He has missed so many wide open targets and guys that were not covered...he isn't the guy.

Sure the defense is busted.  But so is our inaccurate, inconsistent, slow learning QB.  He is replaceable.

I would trust Freeman to win us the game. He has done it many times. His fourth qtr comeback stat is one of the best. The part that has me nervous is his play between the first drive and the last couple. It is not the beginning and certainly not the end I worry about. It is what is he doing somewhere in the middle? Can he keep this team in this game? Those are my questions lately. The fourth qtr is the least of my concerns with #5.


BucBalla85

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#23 : December 18, 2012, 01:44:39 PM

I mean, for the games that the defense certainly lost, there are games that can be put squarely on Freeman for his poor play.  While yes, the defense gave up the final drive in the Skins and Eagles games, if Freeman had done literally anything in the first half, both games would've been well out of reach at that point.  So yes, he is indeed a problem on this team.

You could look at it either way you want. I agree you can put a lot on Freeman this year. My real big point was that with an improved defense this team overall gets better. Its also easier to improve a defense than it is to find a new QB. Freeman has sucked and been pretty good in my eyes this year. Honestly I think if he learned from a few mistakes (that he really could do) then he could be a little better than decent for us. We dont need to start over. If we want to feel a little more secure about the QB position, go get somebody to back him up and push him for the job. I doubt he will back down from that challenge. If he did, its all you need to know. However Freeman will get his shot to keep his job, whether us fans like it or not. He was drafted 1st round, they are gonna make damn sure he isnt the answer. They will work with him endlessly until they know he cant do this. I think hes got more time, regardless of what the fans here think of him. I just hope he makes the most of it. I really hope for the teams sake, that they go and improve that defense as well. With an improved defense, the team is over all better. I think they can make the playoffs with Freeman and an improved defense.

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#24 : December 18, 2012, 01:47:05 PM


 " If we can find somebody better than Free, I'm all for it."

You ain't gonna find 'em if you ain't lookin'.

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#25 : December 18, 2012, 01:47:10 PM

After having watched him, I can say that stats do not tell the entire story. 

Would you trust Freeman to win us a big game?  When has he beaten a quality foe?

Have you seen him throw the damn ball?  He can chuck it a country mile, look at Vincent Jacksons numbers, but that guy cannot make the routine throws.  He cannot read a field.  He has missed so many wide open targets and guys that were not covered...he isn't the guy.

Sure the defense is busted.  But so is our inaccurate, inconsistent, slow learning QB.  He is replaceable.

I would trust Freeman to win us the game. He has done it many times. His fourth qtr comeback stat is one of the best. The part that has me nervous is his play between the first drive and the last couple. It is not the beginning and certainly not the end I worry about. It is what is he doing somewhere in the middle? Can he keep this team in this game? Those are my questions lately. The fourth qtr is the least of my concerns with #5.

All legit concerns and weve seen that since the start. Hopefully theres something he can tap into there. Im not sure how that works. Hopefully they figure that out.

TheAman

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#26 : December 18, 2012, 01:48:16 PM

I just think that Freeman has shown what he is at this point.  A streaky QB who has as many bad games as good.  Basically, his ceiling is Tony Romo.  Which isn't necessarily an insult, Romo was a top 10 QB for a couple seasons.  But not what you're looking for an an NFL starting QB.

However, it's obvious that the secondary needs to vastly improve.

BucBalla85

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#27 : December 18, 2012, 01:48:38 PM


 " If we can find somebody better than Free, I'm all for it."

You ain't gonna find 'em if you ain't lookin'.

I hope they are looking but dont start over just to start over. Get a guy you legitamately think can do it. Dont just get a guy because your fans think you need a change at QB. Get somebody who can really shake things up. Not sure whos available.

BucBalla85

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#28 : December 18, 2012, 01:50:55 PM

I just think that Freeman has shown what he is at this point.  A streaky QB who has as many bad games as good.  Basically, his ceiling is Tony Romo.  Which isn't necessarily an insult, Romo was a top 10 QB for a couple seasons.  But not what you're looking for an an NFL starting QB.

However, it's obvious that the secondary needs to vastly improve.

Ill take that for now rather than starting over with somebody your uncertain about. At least with Freeman you know that if you have a decent defense backing you up, you can win the game. Freeman has shown ability to come back and win close games. So at least you know you have that. Search for the guy and all but see Freeman through.

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#29 : December 18, 2012, 01:56:25 PM

After having watched him, I can say that stats do not tell the entire story. 

Would you trust Freeman to win us a big game?  When has he beaten a quality foe?

2009 Packers and Saints probably won't count for some reason or another. Had the Giants, Redskins and Falcons beat this season and then the defense crapped the bed late in the game. Guess he was supposed to play safety too.

Blaming the Redskins and Falcons losses on the defense? HAHA, comical!!!
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