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yuccaneers

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« #15 : December 19, 2012, 02:15:33 PM »

No matter how much support they are offering or excuses they offer up some of his woes are self inflicted and squarely a result of poor decisions

The below is what I posted on the insider board.

After re-watching the play several times its underscores just how bad Freeman has been at reading through his progressions even with time to throw.

Setting the stage:

Bucs are trailing by 7 with 4:31 to go in the first quarter - it's 2nd and ten from the Saints 20 - Bucs are in 11 personnel and Clark is flexed out wide with Freeman in the shotgun.

Clark runs a comeback, Underwood runs a drag route, Jackson runs a post and Williams runs a corner route, Martin leaks out of the backfield on a little flat route.

Freeman predetermines who he's throwing too before reading through his progression - if he would have read through his progression with the defender covering Clark having inside positioning - the football should have gone to Underwood who flashed right in front of him or his check down option out of the backfield in Martin who was uncovered and with the closest defender 9-yards away from him with his back turned - a case could also be made for Jackson as well - throwing over the top of the LB and leading Jackson a tad - either option was a safer option for Freeman. He could have also stepped up in the pocket and ran for a decent gain as well. Not sure if he lacks confidence in his offensive line at this time - but he had a clean pocket and decided to hurry his throw to the wrong receiver - which is what happened the entire game.

Below is the still photo's...











In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Oliver Goldsmith

RogerGoodellSucks

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« #16 : December 19, 2012, 02:16:11 PM »

No surprise to see this. It's pretty obvious that all the Freeman bashers are overreacting.

i agree with this, myself certainly included.

You guys keep telling yourselves he sucks and we can't win with him. Everyone else, including NFL coaches around the league will continue to laugh at your lack of football knowledge.

i disagree with this.  most knowledgeable posters here understand we can win with freeman.  most dont thnk he sucks.  but many of us think he just is slightly above average overall.  ups, downs, and nothing in between.  its gotten to the point where the argument is "we can win with him" instead of "we can win because of him"

That's a fair assessment of him, but I don't think everyone thinks that.

I've seen multiple people here who said he sucks and we can't win anything with him.


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« #17 : December 19, 2012, 02:19:14 PM »

Theres no doubt hes made some bad decisions all season long. Last game was easily his worst game as a pro by far. However I do think he can get better. It starts this next game vs the Rams.

GameTime

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« #18 : December 19, 2012, 02:21:16 PM »

I've seen multiple people here who said he sucks and we can't win anything with him.

look into the ignore function.  or decide what posters are worth debating with.

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« #19 : December 19, 2012, 02:23:24 PM »


 "A;fter re-watching the play several times its underscores just how bad Freeman has been at reading through his progressions even with time to throw."

And that hasn't changed in four years. Why would anyone believe it's going to change now?

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

GameTime

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« #20 : December 19, 2012, 02:27:31 PM »

“We run a certain team’s offense,” Williams said, referring to the Giants offense brought from New York by former Giants quarterback coach and current Bucs offensive coordinator Mike Sullivan. “The quarterback of that offense [Eli Manning] said it took him six years before he fully understood the offense. That quarterback now has two rings.”

im curious about this.  who's offense do the giants run?  coughlins?  John Hufnagel's?  gilbrides? 

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

yuccaneers

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« #21 : December 19, 2012, 02:47:46 PM »

Gametine - the run Gilbrides offense that has run-and-shoot principles incorporated in it with a numbered play calling instead of a verbiage based system. Which is why the receivers are adjusting on the fly post snap - it lends to communications issues and needs to have both the receivers and QB working on the same page post snap or it looks awful - kind of like what was witnessed against the Saints and throughout different spurts of the seasons. But if its mastered it's a lethal passing attack that doesn't need a true number one receiver and is predicated around the slot receiver which is why Jackson lines up so much in the slot.

In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Oliver Goldsmith

TBayXXXVII

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« #22 : December 19, 2012, 02:50:31 PM »

I've seen multiple people here who said he sucks and we can't win anything with him.

look into the ignore function.  or decide what posters are worth debating with.

Personally, other than Java who takes to the extremes entirely too much, I don't think anyone has said to cut him now... draft a first round QB... or go out and sign his replacement in the offseason.  Almost everyone is saying to let him finish out his contract and decide then.  He's just basically looking at people who offer differing opinions than the "blind homer" to absolutely hate Freeman.

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« #23 : December 19, 2012, 03:02:32 PM »

Was good enough to win 2 super bowl rings or was it the team around him that helped him win those 2 SB rings?? Think about that one guys.

Both. Eli was hardly a game manager in both of those SB runs.

You can't be serious.

The Patriots offense was unstoppable in 2007. Literally, no one could stop them.

The Giants held them to 14 points in the Superbowl and were the only team who could actually put Brady under pressure because their pass rush was so good. You seriously think Eli Manning was the main reason the Giants won the Superbowl?

Just look at his numbers during that run. He wasn't asked to do much, he was definitely just a game manager for that Superbowl run.

I'll give you that he did play a big role in the other Superbowl run, but that wasn't until he had a good 6 years of NFL experience.

My God. Your ass must be sore. You have been pulling a ton of things out of it the past few days.

We'll just concentrate on that first SB. I said SB run, not just one game.

Eli and the Giants came into Tampa and Eli absolutely picked the Bucs defense apart. Every time the Bucs needed to make a stop Eli was able to keep the drive moving. Sure, they didn't score 50 points, but they excuted their game plan, the grabbed a 3 possession lead, and sat on it.

Eli played well against Dallas when he actually got to touch the ball. If you look at his yards, he had 163 and 2 TDs. Not very impressive..but then you figure in that Dallas had the ball for 37 minutes as opposed to the Giants 23.

In the NFC championship, the first half was pretty much a defensive battle with the Packers having the lead at the half 10-7. Then Eli led the Giants down the field on 2 straight scoring drive to start the second half. In the 4th qtr with the game tied at 20, The Giants drove down the field twice and both times Tynes missed FGs of 43 and 36 yards. Of course overtime happened and Favre threw the dumb INT that led to the GW FG.

In the SB, it was a defensive matchup for most of the game. The 4th qtr is where Manning threw TD passes including the go ahead to Burress with :35 secs to go.

Both offense and defense contributed to the Giants SB win. To call Eli a game manager is inaccurate and you are only doing so to boost Freeman.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

chace1986

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« #24 : December 19, 2012, 03:03:18 PM »

I've seen multiple people here who said he sucks and we can't win anything with him.

look into the ignore function.  or decide what posters are worth debating with.

Personally, other than Java who takes to the extremes entirely too much, I don't think anyone has said to cut him now... draft a first round QB... or go out and sign his replacement in the offseason.  Almost everyone is saying to let him finish out his contract and decide then.  He's just basically looking at people who offer differing opinions than the "blind homer" to absolutely hate Freeman.

+1.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

GameTime

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« #25 : December 19, 2012, 03:06:08 PM »

Gametine - they run Gilbrides offense

thanks.  now guess what?  gilbride took over the NYG offense in 2007.  eli became elite in what year?  the giants won the superbowl in what year?



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« #26 : December 19, 2012, 03:10:13 PM »

     Hopefully Josh gets back on his "upward curve" soon. Good he's becoming, albeit s-l-o-w-l-y, a student of the game. I just have to wonder how patient Schiano will be with his development. No question the physical skills are there; it's the decision-making some, including myself, have to question. Add to that, a bad throw can often be the result of indecision, which may the case at times too. When he's more certain what to do in a given situation, he is money!

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« #27 : December 19, 2012, 03:12:12 PM »

Dam, dougie was wide open on that play.

Let's not act like he never makes a good decision and like he can't read the field. He just seems to pick plays where he is going to throw the ball to his number 1 regardless of what happens after the snap. That has not been there all year and has creeped back in as the run game and protection has broken down. It's not surprising but it does need to stop if he wants to be thought of as a top10 QB.

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« #28 : December 19, 2012, 03:14:12 PM »

Eli was far freom a game manager.

He was making some ridiculous throws, and when the playoffs hit, Eli is not a penis in a cold pool. 

Freeman can study all he wants, and will have the shortcomings that he has now.  He is never going to be accurate, he is never going to look safeties off, he is not a three deep progression reader, and when he is blitzed he turns into a deer in the headlights.

I love how Fisher is defending him, right before a game.  Coach speak all the way.

He can study all he wnats, like I said.  But come SUndays, is he the guy that impresses you consistently, or is he the guy that has you wondering what he is going to do next...

Freeman will never even be in the same class as Eli.  He will never win a Superbowl because he is a terrible passer.  Bottom line.


yuccaneers

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« #29 : December 19, 2012, 03:14:32 PM »

Oh! I think I know the answer 2007? While Eli might have helped them get to the Superbowl in 2007 and played brilliantly in the playoffs it took him several years to master the offense and improve his completion percentage and bring down his interceptions. That year Manning had a completion percentage of 56.1 and threw 23 touchdowns to 20 interceptions. The following year he compeltion percentage jumped up to 60% and his interceptions dropped by half. Which if you look at how Freeman has fared in the offense year 1 it is very telling.

In Football, RESPECT is never given freely by your opponent. It must be TAKEN from them...VIOLENTLY

Great players cost a lot of money but help win games. High-priced players - a byproduct of poorly run front offices with bad scouting departments - only cost a lot of money.
"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Oliver Goldsmith
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