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ryan24

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#30 : December 28, 2012, 11:43:22 PM

Sorry Spoolios......your list to support your argument has holes.

1. Drew Brees given up on? No that GM is also the same guy that let Sproles, Michael Turner and most recently V-Jax walk...many suggest the GM's ego got in the way of negotiating. Brees had the shoulder problem and coincidentally they'd drafted a young cowboy named Philip Rivers as his potential replacement...what a concept.

They were so confident in Brees at the time that they used the #4 pick in the draft to select Rivers.

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5. Elway and Montana were gods in college - they were given patience because many KNEW what they were capable of if a little patience was exercised.

Montana was such a god that he wasn't drafted until the 3rd round.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

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#31 : December 29, 2012, 12:08:18 AM

Is there a great QB in free agency? No.
Is there a single great QB prospect in this draft? No.
Does Freeman have only one year left on his contract? Yes.

The solution here is extremely obvious to anyone who isn't reactionary or one of those people that blame the QB for absolutely everything. I'm not sold on Freeman, but he has more than enough potential to let his contract run out for one more year. If there was a Peyton in free agency or if we were just a QB away from a Super Bowl, I'd say otherwise. Neither is the case.

If we do go after a QB, I say take a flyer on a guy in the 5th round or later. See if you get lucky, if not you at least have a solid backup going forward(in theory). But wasting a mid 1st round pick on a gigantic question mark like Barkley or Bray or whoever ends up emerging would be silly. I'm not saying none of them will pan out but there's nothing there right now to give anyone confidence in any of those guys. Not to mention...we were far from the worst passing attack in NFL history, but we'll probably end up having the worst pass defense in history. So let's take care of the CBs and maybe a DT to help out McCoy in those first few rounds before we even consider taking a crapshoot QB.
: December 29, 2012, 12:10:01 AM nubcake


ryan24

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#32 : December 29, 2012, 12:19:23 AM

Is there a great QB in free agency? No.
Is there a single great QB prospect in this draft? No.
Does Freeman have only one year left on his contract? Yes.

The solution here is extremely obvious to anyone who isn't reactionary or one of those people that blame the QB for absolutely everything. I'm not sold on Freeman, but he has more than enough potential to let his contract run out for one more year. If there was a Peyton in free agency or if we were just a QB away from a Super Bowl, I'd say otherwise. Neither is the case.

If we do go after a QB, I say take a flyer on a guy in the 5th round or later. See if you get lucky, if not you at least have a solid backup going forward(in theory). But wasting a mid 1st round pick on a gigantic question mark like Barkley or Bray or whoever ends up emerging would be silly. I'm not saying none of them will pan out but there's nothing there right now to give anyone confidence in any of those guys. Not to mention...we were far from the worst passing attack in NFL history, but we'll probably end up having the worst pass defense in history. So let's take care of the CBs and maybe a DT to help out McCoy in those first few rounds before we even consider taking a crapshoot QB.

Pretty much the whole story.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

Benchwarmer#1

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#33 : December 29, 2012, 12:35:29 AM

Is there a great QB in free agency? No.
Is there a single great QB prospect in this draft? No.
Does Freeman have only one year left on his contract? Yes.

The solution here is extremely obvious to anyone who isn't reactionary or one of those people that blame the QB for absolutely everything. I'm not sold on Freeman, but he has more than enough potential to let his contract run out for one more year. If there was a Peyton in free agency or if we were just a QB away from a Super Bowl, I'd say otherwise. Neither is the case.

If we do go after a QB, I say take a flyer on a guy in the 5th round or later. See if you get lucky, if not you at least have a solid backup going forward(in theory). But wasting a mid 1st round pick on a gigantic question mark like Barkley or Bray or whoever ends up emerging would be silly. I'm not saying none of them will pan out but there's nothing there right now to give anyone confidence in any of those guys. Not to mention...we were far from the worst passing attack in NFL history, but we'll probably end up having the worst pass defense in history. So let's take care of the CBs and maybe a DT to help out McCoy in those first few rounds before we even consider taking a crapshoot QB.

Pretty much the whole story.

I could agree with that statement also.

Competition is fine. It's when fans talk about getting rid of the guy asap, but really have no real answer after that, that I question their thinking. The only logical choice is one of two things (or both), is 1.) make freeman understand it WILL be a competition, and/or 2.) just wait his contract out. After he proves or disproves, we will have better perspective, the unused money to deal for a FA QB, or just gather picks until then to slide up for whoever star QB they want (which will ironically be a much better crop by then imo).

We have a nearly history-making bad pass defense, so I have a horrible time understanding the nuances of hating Freeman for a bad season.

For not personally going out there and stopping the TD-raining by oppsing QBs, he should be punished! lol.

Naismith was right about Revis. Everyone else is a dummy.

TBTrojan

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#34 : December 29, 2012, 12:39:35 AM

My point was that none of those quarterbacks were close to a finished product in year four, just like Freeman isn't. Roethlisberger won a Super Bowl in his second season, but is a much better QB now, for instance.
Have you noticed what these QBs have in common, they were Super Bowl QBs and Pro Bowlers early (first 4 years), showing that the team could get the job done with them or they needed a change of scene to move on to the next level.
Josh hasn't even made the playoffs or sniffed the Pro Bowl and the team has won just 13 games combined during 3 of the 4 years he's been here (granted he only played half his rookie year so may have pulled off an extra 1 or 2 wins)

Have you noticed what else these QBs had in common, veteran rosters and stable coaching situations with great coaches and great schemes. Freeman has had none of that. He's been surrounded by very little talent, most of it young and inexperienced, some of it straight off the street. He got no reps as the starter the first year, and no offseason program in his third. The defense has been one of the worst in the entire league every year he's been here. His protection sucks and he's had to deal with a revolving door of schemes and coaches. He'll set franchise records for TDs and yardage Sunday despite all that, and we have fans here who don't even want to see what he could do in a second season with these coaches and this scheme. The Bucs have never had a team with this much offensive talent. If the defense can even be mediocre next year, this offense will carry the Bucs to the playoffs. I can't wait to see how Dominik and Schiano fix the issues this team has. Replacing Freeman would create an even bigger issue.
You might want to check your excuse.
Just go and look at how veteran the Niners were in Montanas first full season.
On the D they started 3 rookies and only 2 players on the unit had been in the league more than 3 years.
On offense his RB was in year 4, FB year 3, #1 wideout year 3, the o line averaged 5 years.
Average age of the starting units was 26 years old, what was that about veterans again?
In terms of stable coaching staffs, Montana was a part of Walshs first draft as Niners head coach, it's not like he was established in any way and his QB coach Wyche had never coached (except for 1 season in college before he played in the NFL)

LOL. It's not like Joe Montana was the best QB in NFL history or anything.
That's the thing, he's throwing out names like Elway & Montana, how many of those type QBs have ever played the game?
It's doubtful that any QB a team picks will turn out that great, four years in and what we've seen from Josh doesn't exactly make you think potential future HoF/alltime great

1sparkybuc

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#35 : December 29, 2012, 03:08:58 AM

I really hope I live long enough to see Raheem inducted into the HOF as a HC, but not likely. Bill Walsh, on the other hand...........

My chances would be better with Greg Schiano, but he'd have to have a career more like John Madden. I expect he will coach much longer than a single decade.
: December 29, 2012, 03:15:01 AM 1sparkybuc

ufojoe

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#36 : December 29, 2012, 05:50:37 AM

You seem to be missing my point, I assume I'm doing a poor job conveying it. I was disagreeing with the notion that you know what you have with a QB by year four. Montana had a 1.5:1 TD:INT ratio that year (worse than Freeman this year) and never had that low again. Elway threw more INTs than TDs in year six. That wasn't on par with QBs of that era. All of the QBs I listed weren't finished products in or after their fourth year.

You win!  Freeman is a Hall of Famer.  Put him in Canton now. 

smh.  It's people like you that almost make me root for Freeman to have a Sanchez-type year next year so that he's no longer a part of this team.

It's people like you who give Bucs fans a bad name. Who's saying put him in Canton? Just because we may not know who Freeman is in his 4th year doesn't mean he's going
to be a star. Spoolios is making the point that we don't know yet. I'm not sure I agree with that point any more that but that is his point. He said nothing about Hall of Fame.

We don't have much of a choice but to give him one more year. Unless we can bring in a veteran to lead this team to the playoffs next year. Is Plummer still playing handball?

Boid Fink

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#37 : December 29, 2012, 08:48:05 AM

Secondaries can be fixed swiftly.

QB issues demand attention as their play is often related with the teams playoff hunt chances.


dbucfan

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#38 : December 29, 2012, 09:00:24 AM

Secondaries can be fixed swiftly.
I am ready for swift fix for the secondary - honestly, I have a difficult time watching their play.  The adverse impact that unit has on the team cannot be overstated.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

The Anomaly

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#39 : December 29, 2012, 09:16:33 AM

Comparing freeman to Montana is as stupid as our fans comparing raheem to belichick.  Insane.

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#40 : December 29, 2012, 10:50:21 AM

to the people crying about all these young QB's tearing it up, THEY ALL HAVE OFFENSES THAT HAVE BEEN TAILORED TO BE SIMILAR TO THE ONES THEY RAN IN COLLEGE. kaepernick is running a modified version of the pistol that he used at nevada, RGIII is a freak and everyone knew luck was the real deal. but now on to freeman...

this is part of an article talking about how manning found success in kevin gilbride's offense...you know the one that the bucs current RECORD-SETTING offense is largely based upon. its complicated and calls for the QB and receivers to be completely in synch, which, as a rational person i understand is a process that isnt going to happen overnight, or over the course of one season. they all need consistency in the same offensive system, a luxury that #5 hasn't been afforded. if they're putting up these types of numbers in the first year working with this system, maybe, i dont know, they'll be even better with more experience?

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Under offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride, the Giants have the most complicated pass offense in the league. Every pass play has multiple options depending on the coverage. It is a dynamic offense when it works, but it has a lot of moving parts and can go very badly if the players dont know exactly what they are doing.

One play is called in the huddle, but it can all change once the ball is snapped depending on what the defense does. If it shows one look but shifts to another -- the routes were for zone coverage but the defense switches to man everything changes. The receivers have to read it and adjust their routes. The timing changes. Deep routes are cut short and short routes are sent deep and all of this is done on the fly.

The quarterback and the receivers have to see exactly the same thing and process the information exactly the same way. If a receiver turns inside instead of outside or breaks off a route at 10 yards instead of 15, the whole thing blows up. The result is a quarterback throwing the ball right to a defender and there is no receiver in sight.


That happened repeatedly last season as Manning worked through the process with young receivers Hakeem Nicks and Manningham. Numerous times Manning read one thing and the receivers either didnt see it or read something else and the result was an interception and a TV closeup of Manning making a face, shaking his head and walking off the field.

http://www.csnphilly.com/02/12/12/Didinger-How-Eli-Manning-became-elite/landing_eaglestalk.html?blockID=649926&feedID=704


1sparkybuc

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#41 : December 29, 2012, 11:16:39 AM

Comparing freeman to Montana is as stupid as our fans comparing raheem to belichick.  Insane.

It has to be noted that wherever you find a great QB you also find a great coach. Montana had Walsh, who was known for offensive innovation. Belichick was known for his defenses, fired by Cleveland, and won the lottery in the 6th round with Tom Brady. Without Brady, he might have been fired in Foxboro. Raheem reached his peak as a DB coach. He sucked as a DC and as a HC. Freeman and this offense have broken franchise records in Greg Schiano's first season as an NFL HC. It doesn't take much imagination to believe they will improve somewhat in their second season. It takes a boatload of imagination to believe starting over from scratch with a new QB is a better option. That's total BS. We have the right coach to do something special with this QB and this team, but unlike Gruden, he has to focus more on the defensive side of the ball. Mediocre would be a huge improvement for our pass defense. Raheem left a real mess in a unit that should have been his best. He coached them under Kiffin.

TBayXXXVII

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#42 : December 29, 2012, 12:18:17 PM

You seem to be missing my point, I assume I'm doing a poor job conveying it. I was disagreeing with the notion that you know what you have with a QB by year four. Montana had a 1.5:1 TD:INT ratio that year (worse than Freeman this year) and never had that low again. Elway threw more INTs than TDs in year six. That wasn't on par with QBs of that era. All of the QBs I listed weren't finished products in or after their fourth year.

You win!  Freeman is a Hall of Famer.  Put him in Canton now. 

smh.  It's people like you that almost make me root for Freeman to have a Sanchez-type year next year so that he's no longer a part of this team.

It's people like you who give Bucs fans a bad name. Who's saying put him in Canton? Just because we may not know who Freeman is in his 4th year doesn't mean he's going
to be a star. Spoolios is making the point that we don't know yet. I'm not sure I agree with that point any more that but that is his point. He said nothing about Hall of Fame.

We don't have much of a choice but to give him one more year. Unless we can bring in a veteran to lead this team to the playoffs next year. Is Plummer still playing handball?

Yes... it's people like me that have high standards and higher expectations that give Buc fans a bad name... ok.

His point is garbage.  He's trying to compare what Hall of Fame QB's did in totally different era's with different standards.  He's also comparing a strike shortened season for Montana to a full season Freeman.  That season was 9 games with no offseason!!!  Montana was the 5th best passer in the league that year.  ALSO, Montana prior to that offseason had less than 25 starts in his career... Freeman had 40 before this year started.  Number of years isn't as big a measuring stick as games played.  Spoolios is making excuses for Freeman based on garbage information.  There are no parallels between Freeman and Montana, but he's trying to concoct them to justify Freeman's poor play.

Hate

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#43 : December 29, 2012, 12:47:24 PM

You want to talk about his picks? He had 4 on Sunday, only 1 of those was on him.

That is craziiness!!

-------------------------------------------------------
   

 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

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#44 : December 29, 2012, 01:10:55 PM

His point is garbage.  He's trying to compare what Hall of Fame QB's did in totally different era's with different standards.  He's also comparing a strike shortened season for Montana to a full season Freeman.  That season was 9 games with no offseason!!!  Montana was the 5th best passer in the league that year.  ALSO, Montana prior to that offseason had less than 25 starts in his career... Freeman had 40 before this year started.  Number of years isn't as big a measuring stick as games played.  Spoolios is making excuses for Freeman based on garbage information.  There are no parallels between Freeman and Montana, but he's trying to concoct them to justify Freeman's poor play.

At this point, I have to assume you are being intentionally misleading about my point. The only statement I'm making is that Freeman, like nearly  every other QB ever, is not a finished product through four seasons. If you want to claim that guys like Montana or Elway or whoever were at their peak in season four, by all means, but you know you don't believe that. The stats show that all of them improved after that point. Common sense also supports the claim.

There\'s a very real chance the Bucs waive [Revis] before next season. At the very least, it will be a discussion worth having.
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