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JDouble

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#15 : December 31, 2012, 11:12:35 AM

Who'll be available in free agency to replace?  Who's available for trade?  Who's going to be in the draft at 13 that's worth that pick?

Say what you want about Freeman and his flaws -- lord knows I have -- but 4065-27-17 is a QB stat line plenty of teams would love to be dealing with right now.  Just ask Arizona, Tennessee, Jacksonville...

I'm not one for name calling, but if you are gonna quote stats as an excuse after watching this season you are either blind, deaf, or dumb. Or all three.

Also, saying he is better than Gabbert, Skelton, and Kolb as reasoning to stick with him.....is VERY telling. That isn't a mindset that gets you anywhere in the NFL, or life.


bibfortuna

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#16 : December 31, 2012, 12:12:26 PM

I say stick with Free.

- get him another off season in Sully's system
- get him (and Doug) his pro bowl guards back
- get him a sports shrink

And
- get/draft some new corners
- draft a stud DE; get back AC and continue to situationally use Quan; sign Bennett to a reasonable contract if possible
- re-examine defensive scheme/Sheridan
- draft well in general (TE, OT)

ryan24

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#17 : December 31, 2012, 12:14:00 PM

I was just reading on another site about josh Freeman rotoworld.com. How his future is murky with the buccaneers he is owed 8.5million for the love of god he is not the answer. All people will know an remember about Freeman he isn't winner he was not a winner in college an it has just transfer to the league. An if this coach is not wise he will be the second victim of Josh Freeman so he may need to start looking for his own qb. Once again you can't win with a loser

I'm glad someone FINALLY brought this to the board's attention.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

1sparkybuc

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#18 : December 31, 2012, 12:14:14 PM

4065 yards passing, franchise single season record

27 TDs, franchise single season record

17 interceptions, I haven't looked, but I would guess it's NOT a franchise single season record.

Two games accounted for 8 of those interceptions. I would consider that uncommon if not rare.

New coaches, new system, new personnel, key injuries, and a sieve for 14 games in pass defense.

Despite all that, 4065 yards and 27 TDs.

Then there are the career records through the other two and a half seasons of patchwork rosters and piss poor coaching and schemes.

The talent on this roster is getting better with each passing year. Schiano brings leadership and structure. He will upgrade the roster and the coaching staff in the coming months.

In his second year with these coaches and this system, Freeman will throw for even more yardage and more TDs and fewer interceptions, setting an even higher standard.

The pass defense has been pretty stout the last two weeks. Personnel upgrades in free agency and the draft will correct the biggest issues of this team. QB is not an issue.

Given better protection and a couple more weapons, Freeman will extend the standards he has set.

Given even a mediocre defense, he won't have to score 40 points in order to win.

I will forever believe we missed the playoffs for the lack of two starting Gs and two starting CBs.
: December 31, 2012, 12:17:32 PM 1sparkybuc

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#19 : December 31, 2012, 12:29:13 PM

Good post spark. +1

Naismith was right about Revis. Everyone else is a dummy.

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#20 : December 31, 2012, 12:39:50 PM

3yrs as the starting qb he still stares down receivers. A 3yrs starter still blames everyone else when he throws a pick. An weapons what all do you want him to have before you stop making excuses for him how about trade for Vernon Davids Calvin Johnson an Adrian Peterson an he still would be a below average qb ala Jason Campbell

JDouble

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#21 : December 31, 2012, 01:56:32 PM

He cannot be consistent, accurate, and reliable. He cannot make crisp short throws to effectively extend drives. He has proven it over and over for four years. You guys post stats over and over, but it doesn't change anything. All those stats say is that we have the greatest group of offensive weapons ever assembled in Tampa. When Martin is hot, Freeman gets one on one coverage and he throws jump balls deep and his elite WRs make amazing plays. That doesn't make him a good QB. The stats are bull**CENSORED** and if you are honest with yourself you would admit that. Lets not waste the most amazing group of offensive talent ever assembled in Tampa arguing over whether the light will ever go off for Freeman or not. An average but consistent QB would look amazing with this group of guys.


ISLAND BUCS

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#22 : December 31, 2012, 02:43:56 PM

J Dub:  You obviously know your football and you point out some noticable flaws in Freeman's play.

And yet he has some real talent and we have seen some good QB play in come from behind situations when he is in a no-huddle mode.

I think of Vice Young who had real talent, but when Young was traded to SF, Walsh said no one had taught Young how to play QB, instead Young had just relied on his pure talent. I think this about Freeman.

The mistakes in his play that you point out are basis mistakes.  EG., staring down receivers, not making short throws when the pass rush is intensified, ( this could be a function of play calling), not going thru his progressions quickly, etc.

Freeman seems to have size and true talent, but suffers from the basics not truly bering infused in his psyche so that when under pressure they really become second nature, and he takes advantage of what the defense gives him rather than a pre=determined idea of who he is going to pass to and looking at only that receiver.

I know a QB coach like Walsh doesn't come around often, but it seems if Freeman were coached to have a better short game, to go rapidly thru his progressions, and become more familiar iwth some basic QB play, we would have a more than adequate QB.

I have to believe that Brady wasn't that good coming out of Michigan (6th round) and is what he is today because of Belichek.


gone

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#23 : December 31, 2012, 02:45:10 PM

All of these Freeman threads and zero on what to do with our historically bad secondary. Very, very telling about the football IQ for a lot of people on this board. Freeman plays next season. Fix the secondary, sign some depth, stay healthy, go to the playoffs. That's the plan. End of debate.

If everyone here is so stupid, why waste your time here?  Go somewhere else.  Most of us idiots won't even notice you're gone.


Hayseed

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#24 : December 31, 2012, 02:47:06 PM

Bad secondary makes Freeman totally erratic and inaccurate? Bad secondary makes Freeman blame his receivers for his bad throws? Makes him stare down receivers and never make it past his second read? Makes his short throw accuracy horrendous and his mid throw accuracy only slightly better? Makes him a deer in the headlights after four years that only finds success when his two elite receivers make amazing catches on deep jump balls? Makes him unable to check out of run plays when there is 8 guys in the box? Makes him throw balls that get his guys killed? Wow. The secondary does all that.....but you are questioning other people's football IQ?

Bad secondaries make you lose. That was the point I am trying to make. Not that you would've gotten it anyway. A middle of the pack pass defense puts this team into the playoffs comfortably, even with Freeman's inconsistency. As bad as you guys make 5 out to be, he still threw for 4000 yards and 27 TDs. However, the D cannot hold a lead yet all the blame falls on the QB? Yeah, I am questioning the football IQ of someone with that logic.

They Call Me El Jefe, El Primo De Los Matadors,
The Master Of The Metaphor, A Chaw Chewin\' Troubadour

Hayseed

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#25 : December 31, 2012, 02:50:14 PM

All of these Freeman threads and zero on what to do with our historically bad secondary. Very, very telling about the football IQ for a lot of people on this board. Freeman plays next season. Fix the secondary, sign some depth, stay healthy, go to the playoffs. That's the plan. End of debate.

If everyone here is so stupid, why waste your time here?  Go somewhere else.  Most of us idiots won't even notice you're gone.

Why so anxious to get rid of me? Facts hurt. Freeman must improve but he is not the reason we missed the playoffs.

They Call Me El Jefe, El Primo De Los Matadors,
The Master Of The Metaphor, A Chaw Chewin\' Troubadour

bibfortuna

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#26 : December 31, 2012, 02:50:56 PM

The inconsistent play is, I do not believe, based on what I think his ceiling is. I think Free can do better with another off season in the same system and some mentoring. As he ages physically, he'll improve by himself too - hell learn to better perform within the system when his team is down a huge number of points, for example.
Those four years for Free were fairly turbulent and in flux.
My choice would be to fix the defense as opposed to starting over at QB. If they manage to do both, get him some competition without expending too much, I'm for that too. However, just my opinion, I don't think it is a lack of competition, but more an issue of things weighing on his head. He will mature. Right now, it seems like he is trying too hard.
: December 31, 2012, 02:52:48 PM bibfortuna

1sparkybuc

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#27 : December 31, 2012, 02:54:16 PM

He also led the team to break a 12 year old franchise record for most points scored. Take note that that skips over Gruden's tenure to the Dungy era. Seems to me that when a team scores the most points EVER, that defense is the obvious problem. Freeman's issues are minor in comparison. They are correctable. Even if they are not he is still likely to improve on his yardage, TDs, and interceptions, in a second season with the same coaches and same scheme. If the defense had played the first 14 games like they did the last 2, the Bucs would be preparing for the playoffs this week.

Josh Freeman has his name at the top of the record list. He is the best QB in Buccaneer history.

The defense can only say that about defending the run. They're at the very bottom of the list as the worst pass defense in Buccaneer history. Think about that. They're worse than the '76 team that lost every game.

Adjust the QB. Fix the defense.

Hayseed

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#28 : December 31, 2012, 02:57:41 PM

He also led the team to break a 12 year old franchise record for most points scored. Take note that that skips over Gruden's tenure to the Dungy era. Seems to me that when a team scores the most points EVER, that defense is the obvious problem. Freeman's issues are minor in comparison. They are correctable. Even if they are not he is still likely to improve on his yardage, TDs, and interceptions, in a second season with the same coaches and same scheme. If the defense had played the first 14 games like they did the last 2, the Bucs would be preparing for the playoffs this week.

Josh Freeman has his name at the top of the record list. He is the best QB in Buccaneer history.

The defense can only say that about defending the run. They're at the very bottom of the list as the worst pass defense in Buccaneer history. Think about that. They're worse than the '76 team that lost every game.

Adjust the QB. Fix the defense.

Solid! Again, it's just too easy for many to blame the QB. Unfortunately, there may not be a quick fix for shoring up the secondary, especially if Ronde retires.

They Call Me El Jefe, El Primo De Los Matadors,
The Master Of The Metaphor, A Chaw Chewin\' Troubadour

1sparkybuc

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#29 : December 31, 2012, 03:02:54 PM

Ronde's been there, done that, and wants to do it again. He'll be back.
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