once again josh freeman

[BucBalla85]

Agree with Spark. They aren't walking away from Freeman. Not yet. I do think they will get a little competition there.

[1sparkybuc]

Agree with Spark. They aren't walking away from Freeman. Not yet. I do think they will get a little competition there.

Schiano said he wants competition at every position, including QB. I seriously doubt he expects anyone to beat him out.

[NotDeadYet]

    Rather than getting rid of Josh, I'd look for new ways to improve his weaknesses this offseason. What gets overlooked on this board is the STRENGTHS he does have as a QB, which not ALL NFL QBs possess. His weaknesses, IMO, are fixable.
    Physically, I think Josh could improve his hand quickness considerably. Looks slow and sluggish to me at times. With his overall strength, he should be able to easily flick the ball a short distance without going through a long wind-up motion. That would be invaluable when he's under pressure and needs to get rid of the ball quickly to a checkdown, as would using a pump-fake more often.
    I am hoping Schiano/Sullivan/Turner have him set up in an offseason program to work on his overall quickness of hands as well as making quick decisions. That would do him a WORLD of good. Repetition, repetition, repetition... Taking up a sport like ping pong might help too, just for a change of pace. And work on his overall coordination; throwing the ball while stepping QUICKLY laterally or backward. I got a million of'em...

[dbrooks55]

He cannot be consistent, accurate, and reliable. He cannot make crisp short throws to effectively extend drives. He has proven it over and over for four years. You guys post stats over and over, but it doesn't change anything. All those stats say is that we have the greatest group of offensive weapons ever assembled in Tampa. When Martin is hot, Freeman gets one on one coverage and he throws jump balls deep and his elite WRs make amazing plays. That doesn't make him a good QB. The stats are bull**CENSORED** and if you are honest with yourself you would admit that. Lets not waste the most amazing group of offensive talent ever assembled in Tampa arguing over whether the light will ever go off for Freeman or not. An average but consistent QB would look amazing with this group of guys.

Sounds an awful lot like a QB that played in 4 NFC Championships and a Superbowl...Donovan McNabb, actually I think Freeman is more accurate than McNabb. Don't believe me go watch some of McNabbs games. Freeman is in is first year under Sullivan, he deserves more than that. Sullivan gets alot of credit for pushing Eli over the top. But to judge it in one season is unfair, also throw out the couple bad games he had this year (which is understandable in a new system) Freeman is one of the best in the league in protecting that ball. The light will go on, Freeman has the talent, #1 priority is defense, cause your option of a run of the mill QB would be a joke, without a better defense. It's simple Freeman as it stands is the best option. But I would not be opposed to bring in some real competition for him...Orvlosky is a joke too!

[JDouble]

McNabb was on a great team and they never won a Super Bowl.....just sayin.

[Hayseed]

Quick little comparison:

Freeman vs Flacco (this year's top QB FA) over the last three years (to have three full seasons of starting)

Freeman:

RAT - 84
YDS - 11108
TDS - 68
INT - 45
COMP - 59.7%

Flacco:
RAT - 87
YDS - 11049
TDS - 67
INT - 32
COMP - 60% (59.96)

Flacco is 2 years, 11 months and 27 days older.

Now, I wonder, how would Josh have done with B-More's defense, running attack and blocking over the last three years?

I simply bring this up because Josh isn't as bad as you guys make him out to be. Flacco is not a world-beater but he is solid and is a very comparable QB to Freeman. He is smart with the ball, especially with the taking care of the ball. However, Freeman's upside to Flacco isn't even close. He pretty much equals his output but is three years younger and hasn't had the playmakers on offense that Flacco has enjoyed until this season.

Another guy is Cutler. He has been injured and has missed 8 games over the last 3 season, however, look at his stats:

RAT - 84.4
YDS - 8626
TDS - 55
INT - 37
COMP - 59%

Again, Cutler is almost 5 years older than Freeman but their output is very close. Are Bear fans calling for his head? Nope. They have a solid running game and good defense. Just like the Ravens.

Like I said, the problems on this team go well beyond Freeman and his inconsistency.

[The Anomaly]

bucball1 your posts are tough to read. Please use some kind of grammer (i.e.- periods, comma)

I'm not a big Freeman fan but what else do the Bucs have? I think Freeman will be fine if we can keep the OL healthy and get some better quality depth there. The Secondary needs to be shored up and another DE or two can help the pass rush.

Anyone else notice that the teams the Bucs struggled the most against this year where the Giants, Redskins, Eagles and Saints. What do these teams have in common? All teams have first handd knowledge of a Giants style run offense. Some will question the Saints but all you have to look at is who is the DC in New Orleans for that answer.

That's like staying with an ugly chick because you are afraid to see what else is out there.  I think Josh deserves this last season but I am tired of people being afraid of the unknown.  Don't just stick with Josh to stick with Josh.

[MrGruden]

Chad spann everyone.

[jhop88]

All of these Freeman threads and zero on what to do with our historically bad secondary. Very, very telling about the football IQ for a lot of people on this board. Freeman plays next season. Fix the secondary, sign some depth, stay healthy, go to the playoffs. That's the plan. End of debate.

The team was 6-4 w/the "historically bad secondary." Freeman over those 10 games had 21 TDs/7 INTs.

Over the final 6 games when this team went 1-5, Freeman had 6 TDs/10 INTs.

Hmmm, such a coincidence when this team's QB started shi**ing the bed, this team did the same. The fact that the Freeman apologists refuse to admit the guy is the main issue w/this team/franchise is "very, very telling about the football IQ for a lot of people on this board."

[jhop88]

4065 yards passing, franchise single season record

27 TDs, franchise single season record

17 interceptions, I haven't looked, but I would guess it's NOT a franchise single season record.

Two games accounted for 8 of those interceptions. I would consider that uncommon if not rare.

New coaches, new system, new personnel, key injuries, and a sieve for 14 games in pass defense.

Despite all that, 4065 yards and 27 TDs.

Then there are the career records through the other two and a half seasons of patchwork rosters and piss poor coaching and schemes.

The talent on this roster is getting better with each passing year. Schiano brings leadership and structure. He will upgrade the roster and the coaching staff in the coming months.

In his second year with these coaches and this system, Freeman will throw for even more yardage and more TDs and fewer interceptions, setting an even higher standard.

The pass defense has been pretty stout the last two weeks. Personnel upgrades in free agency and the draft will correct the biggest issues of this team. QB is not an issue.

Given better protection and a couple more weapons, Freeman will extend the standards he has set.

Given even a mediocre defense, he won't have to score 40 points in order to win.

I will forever believe we missed the playoffs for the lack of two starting Gs and two starting CBs.

6-4 record, Freeman was 21/7.

1-5 record over the L6 games, Freeman was 6/10.

Hmmm, interesting.

[jhop88]

Bad secondary makes Freeman totally erratic and inaccurate? Bad secondary makes Freeman blame his receivers for his bad throws? Makes him stare down receivers and never make it past his second read? Makes his short throw accuracy horrendous and his mid throw accuracy only slightly better? Makes him a deer in the headlights after four years that only finds success when his two elite receivers make amazing catches on deep jump balls? Makes him unable to check out of run plays when there is 8 guys in the box? Makes him throw balls that get his guys killed? Wow. The secondary does all that.....but you are questioning other people's football IQ?

Bad secondaries make you lose. That was the point I am trying to make. Not that you would've gotten it anyway. A middle of the pack pass defense puts this team into the playoffs comfortably, even with Freeman's inconsistency. As bad as you guys make 5 out to be, he still threw for 4000 yards and 27 TDs. However, the D cannot hold a lead yet all the blame falls on the QB? Yeah, I am questioning the football IQ of someone with that logic.

And IMO, a better, more consistent QB this season puts this team in the playoffs regardless of this defense. It is a lot easier in today's NFL to overcome a bad defense than it is to overcome bad QB play.

[MrGruden]

Bad secondary makes Freeman totally erratic and inaccurate? Bad secondary makes Freeman blame his receivers for his bad throws? Makes him stare down receivers and never make it past his second read? Makes his short throw accuracy horrendous and his mid throw accuracy only slightly better? Makes him a deer in the headlights after four years that only finds success when his two elite receivers make amazing catches on deep jump balls? Makes him unable to check out of run plays when there is 8 guys in the box? Makes him throw balls that get his guys killed? Wow. The secondary does all that.....but you are questioning other people's football IQ?

Bad secondaries make you lose. That was the point I am trying to make. Not that you would've gotten it anyway. A middle of the pack pass defense puts this team into the playoffs comfortably, even with Freeman's inconsistency. As bad as you guys make 5 out to be, he still threw for 4000 yards and 27 TDs. However, the D cannot hold a lead yet all the blame falls on the QB? Yeah, I am questioning the football IQ of someone with that logic.

And IMO, a better, more consistent QB this season puts this team in the playoffs regardless of this defense. It is a lot easier in today's NFL to overcome a bad defense than it is to overcome bad QB play.

Drew Brees disagrees.

[Morgan]

And IMO, a better, more consistent QB this season puts this team in the playoffs regardless of this defense. It is a lot easier in today's NFL to overcome a bad defense than it is to overcome bad QB play.

Tell that to Drew Brews who had an outstanding offense with very good players at every position, but is still sitting at home like Freeman, watching the playoffs on his HDTV.

[jhop88]

He also led the team to break a 12 year old franchise record for most points scored. Take note that that skips over Gruden's tenure to the Dungy era. Seems to me that when a team scores the most points EVER, that defense is the obvious problem. Freeman's issues are minor in comparison. They are correctable. Even if they are not he is still likely to improve on his yardage, TDs, and interceptions, in a second season with the same coaches and same scheme. If the defense had played the first 14 games like they did the last 2, the Bucs would be preparing for the playoffs this week.

Josh Freeman has his name at the top of the record list. He is the best QB in Buccaneer history.

The defense can only say that about defending the run. They're at the very bottom of the list as the worst pass defense in Buccaneer history. Think about that. They're worse than the '76 team that lost every game.

Adjust the QB. Fix the defense.

So much wrong w/this post, I'm not even sure where to start.

The team averaged 17 PPG the L6 games...they went 1-5. Stop w/the offense/Freeman weren't the problem.

[jhop88]

Bad secondary makes Freeman totally erratic and inaccurate? Bad secondary makes Freeman blame his receivers for his bad throws? Makes him stare down receivers and never make it past his second read? Makes his short throw accuracy horrendous and his mid throw accuracy only slightly better? Makes him a deer in the headlights after four years that only finds success when his two elite receivers make amazing catches on deep jump balls? Makes him unable to check out of run plays when there is 8 guys in the box? Makes him throw balls that get his guys killed? Wow. The secondary does all that.....but you are questioning other people's football IQ?

Bad secondaries make you lose. That was the point I am trying to make. Not that you would've gotten it anyway. A middle of the pack pass defense puts this team into the playoffs comfortably, even with Freeman's inconsistency. As bad as you guys make 5 out to be, he still threw for 4000 yards and 27 TDs. However, the D cannot hold a lead yet all the blame falls on the QB? Yeah, I am questioning the football IQ of someone with that logic.,

And IMO, a better, more consistent QB this season puts this team in the playoffs regardless of this defense. It is a lot easier in today's NFL to overcome a bad defense than it is to overcome bad QB play.

Drew Brees disagrees.

The Saints had the worst defense in the league...go figure, this "great offense" got shutout by them!!!

Regardless, Atlanta (24th ranked D), NE (25th ranked D), Indy (26th ranked D), Washington (28th ranked D) all made the playoffs. I'd love for some of you to enlighten me as to why/how they made the playoffs. NM, I think I figured it out:

Matt Ryan
Tom Brady
Andrew Luck
RG3

Again, it's easier to overcome a bad defense than it is to overcome bad QB play. The NFL has changed...people that still expect stellar defense and think that's more important than having a legit QB are clueless. 5 of the top 10 defensive teams didn't make the playoffs.