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Dolorous Jason

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« #90 : March 05, 2013, 04:37:33 PM »

So we passed on Posey because we are cheap ....nice... I think I'd feel better if they just screwed up.

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

olafberserker

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« #91 : March 05, 2013, 04:51:28 PM »

Thanks.

Well, if that was the case, and the Rays would have agreed to $7 million, then his demands cost him $1m.  I'm wondering if he just didn't want to play in Tampa.


It's posturing and it is what Boras does.  Instead of calling his bluff and drafting the guy we went with the less expensive guy.  Not just up front, but down the road since Beckham was going to take 4-5 years to develop.   He was obviously the best choice for the team if not the best player in the draft.  We screwed the pooch because they were too cheap to take the guy.   Like I said before, he could have helped make Stu a bunch of money and get his stadium.

Sweep

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« #92 : March 05, 2013, 05:05:40 PM »

Well, I was yelling as loud as I could for the Rays to draft Posey.  Obviously, no one heard or cared.

It’s going to look to some people like a different play every time we use it, but pretty soon they’ll be able to recognize it....by watching the official for the first-down signal.   -Vincent T. Lombardi

Biggs3535

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« #93 : March 05, 2013, 05:29:46 PM »

Everybody can whine about Posey in hindsight if they want to, but it was the correct call for the team at the time.  They wouldn't have met Posey's contract demands and he would have went back to FSU.  That's why the three teams behind the Rays made the same decision to pass on Posey.  SF took the high dollar gamble, and it paid off for them.  Beckham was praised universally in the scouting community and was a legit #1 pick out of HS.  He busted.  It happens.

For further evidence of Posey's ridiculous contract demands, just look at the previous #1 pick's contract in David Price:

2007 #1 overall selection, David Price:  6 years, $8.5M with a $5.6M bonus
2008 #5 overall selection, Buster Posey:  3 years, $16M with a $6.2M bonus

There is a reason 4 organizations passed on Posey.  I'm sure if Wil Myers busts at the Major League level, there will be people who whine about trading Shields for him.  But, just like Beckham/Posey, trading Shields for a big-bat prospect was the best thing for the team at the time.  Time will tell if the move pans out.


Sweep

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« #94 : March 05, 2013, 06:40:24 PM »

I just wanted Posey because of the difficulty in finding a good hitting catcher. I could just as easily been wrong.   I've been wrong before.  If his demands were too high then they were too high.  And I'll go on record saying I love the Shields trade.


It’s going to look to some people like a different play every time we use it, but pretty soon they’ll be able to recognize it....by watching the official for the first-down signal.   -Vincent T. Lombardi

Dolorous Jason

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« #95 : March 05, 2013, 07:17:01 PM »

Thanks.

Well, if that was the case, and the Rays would have agreed to $7 million, then his demands cost him $1m.  I'm wondering if he just didn't want to play in Tampa.


It's posturing and it is what Boras does.  Instead of calling his bluff and drafting the guy we went with the less expensive guy.  Not just up front, but down the road since Beckham was going to take 4-5 years to develop.   He was obviously the best choice for the team if not the best player in the draft.  We screwed the pooch because they were too cheap to take the guy.   Like I said before, he could have helped make Stu a bunch of money and get his stadium.

I can think of better draft strategies than " take the less expensive guy " ....if you want to win anyways....

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

olafberserker

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« #96 : March 05, 2013, 07:36:28 PM »

I'm not sure why every time someone disagrees with something the Rays do you consider it whining, but I was "whining" at the time then as well.   Posey was an obvious choice to be added to the team if we were serious about winning a championship in the next few years.  Beckham was the obvious choice for a franchise that wanted to save money by drafting an 18 year old that was several years away from having a shot at making an impact.  He wasn't universally the same prospect that Posey was and I don't overly care about the other 3 franchises.

I'm not ready to call Beckham a bust anyway, but he hasn't helped us in the past 4 years when this team had a legit shot at winning a title.  He also hasn't and wasn't going to solve the issue of a power hitter in the middle of the line up let alone the rare good catcher that can also rake.

The Shields/Myers comparison doesn't fly other than the complaining part.  You traded from a position of strength (SP) to fill a need (middle of the line up production).

Biggs3535

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« #97 : March 06, 2013, 09:46:53 AM »

I'm not sure why every time someone disagrees with something the Rays do you consider it whining, but I was "whining" at the time then as well.

The earliest I can see you referring to selecting Posey over Beckham was 2012.  I cannot find the post of you saying the team should team should have taken Posey over Beckham at the time in 2008.  I'd love to see them, otherwise it's a hindsight argument.


Sweep

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« #98 : March 06, 2013, 10:36:07 AM »

Speaking of catchers,  Chris Giminez is having a nice spring at the plate.

G   AB   R   H   TB   2B   3B   HR  RBI  BB    IBB   SO   SB   CS   AVG     OBP   SLG    OPS    GO/AO

8    13    2    6    10    1    0      1     3      1        0       1       0      0   .462     .467   .769       1.236     0.60

It’s going to look to some people like a different play every time we use it, but pretty soon they’ll be able to recognize it....by watching the official for the first-down signal.   -Vincent T. Lombardi

Biggs3535

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« #99 : March 06, 2013, 10:36:38 AM »

I'm still holding out hope for Chirinos.


olafberserker

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« #100 : March 06, 2013, 10:59:53 AM »

I don't know what was said for sure 5 years ago (maybe I'll look back when I have a chance), but it was pretty obvious then and is now and has been for the past 5 years that they are going with the cheaper option when possible.  Which is fine for the most part, but it isn't fine when you will not make moves to improve obvious needs.   They passed on Bay.  They passed on Pence.   They finally pulled the trigger on the Shields deal (made sense financially as well) to get Myers and even threw in Davis to get it done.  Hopefully that pans out.

olafberserker

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« #101 : March 06, 2013, 11:03:15 AM »

Truthfully, at this point it would be nice if Myers comes on and if we get something from Escobar, Longo stays healthy, etc., then the catcher's defense is more important and hitting is just icing.

Sweep

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« #102 : March 08, 2013, 07:43:42 PM »

Speaking of Gimenez,  (you guys probably already knew this but I didn't) he has a minor league option so the odds are against him staying.

 But c'mon, last year after being sent down to Durham May 28 and changing his swing, in 71 games there he hits .310, 10 hr's, 49 RBI's.  Then after being recalled to the Rays on Aug 31, he hits .406, 3 doubles, 1 hr, and 5 RBI's in 18 games to finish the season.   And now, this spring, he's leading the club in hitting at .526 in 10 games.

I have zero knowledge or memory of his defense or calling pitches, but, that's a hot bat since May 28 a year ago.

It’s going to look to some people like a different play every time we use it, but pretty soon they’ll be able to recognize it....by watching the official for the first-down signal.   -Vincent T. Lombardi

Dolorous Jason

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« #103 : March 08, 2013, 07:55:16 PM »

I don't know what was said for sure 5 years ago (maybe I'll look back when I have a chance), but it was pretty obvious then and is now and has been for the past 5 years that they are going with the cheaper option when possible.  Which is fine for the most part, but it isn't fine when you will not make moves to improve obvious needs.   They passed on Bay.  They passed on Pence.   They finally pulled the trigger on the Shields deal (made sense financially as well) to get Myers and even threw in Davis to get it done.  Hopefully that pans out.

The thing is  , if Myers contract wasn't so friendly we wouldn't have done this deal either. Only reason we pulled the trigger is because , by keeping him in the minors this season , we have the opportunity to rape him and make him basically play for free for a few years before we sell him off like the rest.

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

Biggs3535

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« #104 : March 08, 2013, 08:00:44 PM »

Speaking of Gimenez,  (you guys probably already knew this but I didn't) he has a minor league option so the odds are against him staying.

 But c'mon, last year after being sent down to Durham May 28 and changing his swing, in 71 games there he hits .310, 10 hr's, 49 RBI's.  Then after being recalled to the Rays on Aug 31, he hits .406, 3 doubles, 1 hr, and 5 RBI's in 18 games to finish the season.   And now, this spring, he's leading the club in hitting at .526 in 10 games.

I have zero knowledge or memory of his defense or calling pitches, but, that's a hot bat since May 28 a year ago.

Gimenez is a defensive guy.  If he can hit .275 and 10 dingers in the pros, that's a win.

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