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BucBalla85

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#90 : January 03, 2013, 05:45:13 PM

You could also be jaded by the five game stretch at the end of the year. Just saying. It's always gonna be "what have you done for me lately" league. What's it gonna be like if Freeman turns his game around? I'm sure a lot of you would rather he suck so you could go back to this thread and point how right you were. I see it as very possible he could come back next year and be better than this year. If he does that, this buc fan is happy he stuck by him.

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#91 : January 03, 2013, 05:45:31 PM

When Freeman starts rising to the occasion late in the season and coming up big in big games....I'll get off his back. Till then HE SUCKS.

Like the last 4 games of 2010 when he threw 9 TDs and 0 INTs and suprise suprise the defense blew a 4th qtr lead at home to Drew Stanton.

If you can't get behind this QB then you're the one who sucks. You and the rest of this chitty front running fanbase.

Get behind him for what exactly?

His stellar record as a starter? Oh wait...

His # of playoff appearances? Oh wait...

What exactly is the reason to "get behind him?"

Why do you think QB's are solely responsible for winning games and making the playoffs?

I don't, but at some point winning has to matter. All I hear are excuses as to why Freeman is 24-34 as a starter and this team still hasn't made the playoffs w/him as the QB. Meanwhile, the teams in Washington and Indy, both w/bad defenses are in the playoffs this season. It's been shown especially recently that QBs can overcome bad defensive play to win games and make the playoffs. Freeman hasn't done either.

Perhaps, you can explain why Freeman's offense scored more points, on passing touchdowns than Indy or Washington (even with the goose egg versus NO) yet we  didn't make the playoffs and they did. Use your brain and think about it. Freeman's offense scores more than RGIII's and Andrew Luck's and his team doesn't make the playoffs. Their teams do. What was the difference?

Might wanna check your stats their chief...they didn't score more pts than the Redskins.

NEXT

And they scored 2 PPG more than Indy.

Like I said earlier, people's opinion of Freeman and this offense are so jaded by the mid-season 5-game stretch it's hilarious.

There fixed it for you.

RogerGoodellSucks

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#92 : January 03, 2013, 05:45:55 PM

He went into Chicago and beat the number one defense. You are so ridiculous bro. What the hell happen to you?
JDub still thinks QB's are solely responsible for beating teams it looks like. The defense who made up for Wilson's **CENSORED**ty play for the first 3 quarters shouldn't get any credit.

Thanks for completely ignoring my other post, hypocrite.


You really have turned into such a garbage poster bro. Nobody said anything even close to that. Of course the defense had a big role. So did the running game. None of that changes what Wilson was able to do. None of it changes that fact that Freeman has NEVER rose up and won a big game in his four years here. Quit being such a skunt.

You're comparing Wilson to Freeman.

I'm saying Freeman hasn't had the chances Wilson has had because Wilson has the best D in the NFL. Like the Bears game for an example. If Freeman played like Wilson did for most of the game, Freeman would have had no shot to win the game because our defense would have given up so many points. Wilson has the luxury of having a great D that can keep him in games when he struggles. I like Wilson and I'm not discrediting anything he did. Those last 2 drives were impressive and he has had a nice season overall, especially lately. But, do you seriously think Russell WIlson would lead the Bucs to the playoffs and Freeman wouldn't lead the Seahawks to the playoffs? Come on man.

Yes, I do believe this team would've made the playoffs this season w/Russell Wilson at QB (or other QBs for that matter).

Let's look at the Bucs wins this season:

Carolina 16-10 (Bucs D held Carolina to 10 pts...Freeman didn't win this game)

KC 38-10 (Bucs D held KC to 10 pts...most QBs would've won this game)

Minny 36-17 (Freeman played well in this game as did Dougie Fresh)

Oakland 42-32 (Freeman played well in this game, but let's be real, this game was all about Dougie)

SD 34-24 (Freeman played well in this game, but the INT TD by Johnson won this game)

Carolina 27-21 (yes, Freeman played great on the last drive and in OT, but again, let's be real, if he didn't stink until that final drive, this game would've been won in the 1st qtr)

Atlanta 22-17 (Freeman sure as hell didn't win this game...played like sh*t IMO)

So, looking at the 7 Bucs wins this season, please tell me which game/s Freeman "won."

If you insert a good to great QB on this team this season, the Bucs probably win these 7 games and then some.

I could do the same exact thing with the Seahawks wins.



Theoldbuc

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#93 : January 03, 2013, 05:47:36 PM

When Freeman starts rising to the occasion late in the season and coming up big in big games....I'll get off his back. Till then HE SUCKS.

Like the last 4 games of 2010 when he threw 9 TDs and 0 INTs and suprise suprise the defense blew a 4th qtr lead at home to Drew Stanton.

If you can't get behind this QB then you're the one who sucks. You and the rest of this chitty front running fanbase.

Get behind him for what exactly?

His stellar record as a starter? Oh wait...

His # of playoff appearances? Oh wait...

What exactly is the reason to "get behind him?"

Why do you think QB's are solely responsible for winning games and making the playoffs?

I don't, but at some point winning has to matter. All I hear are excuses as to why Freeman is 24-34 as a starter and this team still hasn't made the playoffs w/him as the QB. Meanwhile, the teams in Washington and Indy, both w/bad defenses are in the playoffs this season. It's been shown especially recently that QBs can overcome bad defensive play to win games and make the playoffs. Freeman hasn't done either.

Perhaps, you can explain why Freeman's offense scored more points, on passing touchdowns than Indy or Washington (even with the goose egg versus NO) yet we  didn't make the playoffs and they did. Use your brain and think about it. Freeman's offense scores more than RGIII's and Andrew Luck's and his team doesn't make the playoffs. Their teams do. What was the difference?

Might wanna check your stats their chief...they didn't score more pts than the Redskins.

NEXT

And they scored 2 PPG more than Indy.

Like I said earlier, people's opinion of Freeman and this offense are so jaded by the mid-season 5-game stretch it's hilarious.

There fixed it for you. The point is Freeman produced on par or better than either QB in the passing game. Yet their teams are in the playoffs.  What was the difference?

jhop88

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#94 : January 03, 2013, 05:47:44 PM


Wait, so when Freeman went on that great 5-game stretch, it was all him right?

But then when he ultimately failed this season and stunk it up the final 6 games, it's the fault of:

injured o line

inconsistent RB

bad play calling?

Haha, I see how this works now!!!

How about Russell Wilson is a good QB because well, he's a good QB. You obviously didn't watch him at NC St or Wisky huh? His college numbers were absurdly good so despite what some may think, this season is no fluke for him. On the other hand, you have Josh Freeman who couldn't even light it up in the no-defense playing Big 12. Some of you really are clueless.
First off....point out that I said Freeman was solely responsible for our 5 game skid? Thank you for jumping to conclusions about me giving credit to Free for his downfall and highs. So how does it work now???

Second, I've seen him play in college. He isn't that great to me, solid all around Qb. He benefits greatly from his supporting cast and there's no doubt about it. I'm not ready to crown him yet.

Thirdly, newton was much worse last year than this his rookie year so yes he did slump.

Next

First off, you're confused.

Second, I guess he benefited greatly from that supporting cast at NC St too!!! If you didn't think Russell Wilson was great in college, there's no point in even discussing anything w/you because you're clueless.

Thirdly, Newton WASN'T much worse last year than his rookie season...check post #45 in this thread and get back to me.

Next


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#95 : January 03, 2013, 05:48:46 PM

You are working really hard to make a point jhop - and discredit Freeman when the bucs win, and the blaming him for losses.  Ignoring the defensive contribution to losses hurts your position.  Now if you want to point to Freeman's performance and note he hasn't done well against the top 8 teams have at it.  That is the target - having a qb who competes well against the top teams.  Stick with it and you will make a solid point.  This other stuff offered by so many other less accomplished posters - well it is unconvincing.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

RogerGoodellSucks

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#96 : January 03, 2013, 05:49:02 PM

When Freeman starts rising to the occasion late in the season and coming up big in big games....I'll get off his back. Till then HE SUCKS.

Like the last 4 games of 2010 when he threw 9 TDs and 0 INTs and suprise suprise the defense blew a 4th qtr lead at home to Drew Stanton.

If you can't get behind this QB then you're the one who sucks. You and the rest of this chitty front running fanbase.

Get behind him for what exactly?

His stellar record as a starter? Oh wait...

His # of playoff appearances? Oh wait...

What exactly is the reason to "get behind him?"

Why do you think QB's are solely responsible for winning games and making the playoffs?

I don't, but at some point winning has to matter. All I hear are excuses as to why Freeman is 24-34 as a starter and this team still hasn't made the playoffs w/him as the QB. Meanwhile, the teams in Washington and Indy, both w/bad defenses are in the playoffs this season. It's been shown especially recently that QBs can overcome bad defensive play to win games and make the playoffs. Freeman hasn't done either.

The QB's haven't done everything for these teams though. The Colts had a cupcake schedule this year and have played inspired under Pagano and the Redskins have had a great running game to go along with RG3 having a good season (they won both games RG3 didn't play in). And anyways, Luck was the #1 pick in the draft and is one of the best prospects to come out in decades and RG3 was very highly thought of too. Where are you expecting to get a guy like that?

The Bucs played a "cupcake" schedule as well no? And didn't the Bucs have a "great" running game too?

Regardless, this isn't one season we're talking about, it's basically 4...24-34, ZERO playoff appearances. Those are the facts. At some point, winning has to matter.

The Colts had the second easiest schedule in the league. I'm not sure where the Bucs rank, but it wasn't as easy. Look at their schedule, it was a joke.

And the Redskins running game was much more consistent then ours. Funny how Freeman gets bashed for being inconsistent yet no one says a word about the running game being inconsistent.


Lord Jenkins

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#97 : January 03, 2013, 05:49:57 PM

Freeman is currently a middle of the road QB. I don't get the emotions and tensions that some of you guys have for/against him. You win some, you lose some. Let's bolster the secondary and have some fun come September.

Does "middle of the road" win SBs int he NFL now?

I'm thinking no.

L9

Eli
Rodgers
Brees
Ben
Eli
Peyton
Ben
Brady
Brady

A "middle of the road" QB hasn't won it since the Bucs did in 2003 and we all know about the defense on that team.

Big Ben is quite middle of the pack. He's fun to watch though.


jhop88

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#98 : January 03, 2013, 05:50:18 PM

When Freeman starts rising to the occasion late in the season and coming up big in big games....I'll get off his back. Till then HE SUCKS.

Like the last 4 games of 2010 when he threw 9 TDs and 0 INTs and suprise suprise the defense blew a 4th qtr lead at home to Drew Stanton.

If you can't get behind this QB then you're the one who sucks. You and the rest of this chitty front running fanbase.

Get behind him for what exactly?

His stellar record as a starter? Oh wait...

His # of playoff appearances? Oh wait...

What exactly is the reason to "get behind him?"

Why do you think QB's are solely responsible for winning games and making the playoffs?

I don't, but at some point winning has to matter. All I hear are excuses as to why Freeman is 24-34 as a starter and this team still hasn't made the playoffs w/him as the QB. Meanwhile, the teams in Washington and Indy, both w/bad defenses are in the playoffs this season. It's been shown especially recently that QBs can overcome bad defensive play to win games and make the playoffs. Freeman hasn't done either.

Perhaps, you can explain why Freeman's offense scored more points, on passing touchdowns than Indy or Washington (even with the goose egg versus NO) yet we  didn't make the playoffs and they did. Use your brain and think about it. Freeman's offense scores more than RGIII's and Andrew Luck's and his team doesn't make the playoffs. Their teams do. What was the difference?

Might wanna check your stats their chief...they didn't score more pts than the Redskins.

NEXT

And they scored 2 PPG more than Indy.

Like I said earlier, people's opinion of Freeman and this offense are so jaded by the mid-season 5-game stretch it's hilarious.

There fixed it for you.

This isn't even worth responding to other than to say what's your point?

jhop88

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#99 : January 03, 2013, 05:52:05 PM

He went into Chicago and beat the number one defense. You are so ridiculous bro. What the hell happen to you?
JDub still thinks QB's are solely responsible for beating teams it looks like. The defense who made up for Wilson's **CENSORED**ty play for the first 3 quarters shouldn't get any credit.

Thanks for completely ignoring my other post, hypocrite.


You really have turned into such a garbage poster bro. Nobody said anything even close to that. Of course the defense had a big role. So did the running game. None of that changes what Wilson was able to do. None of it changes that fact that Freeman has NEVER rose up and won a big game in his four years here. Quit being such a skunt.

You're comparing Wilson to Freeman.

I'm saying Freeman hasn't had the chances Wilson has had because Wilson has the best D in the NFL. Like the Bears game for an example. If Freeman played like Wilson did for most of the game, Freeman would have had no shot to win the game because our defense would have given up so many points. Wilson has the luxury of having a great D that can keep him in games when he struggles. I like Wilson and I'm not discrediting anything he did. Those last 2 drives were impressive and he has had a nice season overall, especially lately. But, do you seriously think Russell WIlson would lead the Bucs to the playoffs and Freeman wouldn't lead the Seahawks to the playoffs? Come on man.

Yes, I do believe this team would've made the playoffs this season w/Russell Wilson at QB (or other QBs for that matter).

Let's look at the Bucs wins this season:

Carolina 16-10 (Bucs D held Carolina to 10 pts...Freeman didn't win this game)

KC 38-10 (Bucs D held KC to 10 pts...most QBs would've won this game)

Minny 36-17 (Freeman played well in this game as did Dougie Fresh)

Oakland 42-32 (Freeman played well in this game, but let's be real, this game was all about Dougie)

SD 34-24 (Freeman played well in this game, but the INT TD by Johnson won this game)

Carolina 27-21 (yes, Freeman played great on the last drive and in OT, but again, let's be real, if he didn't stink until that final drive, this game would've been won in the 1st qtr)

Atlanta 22-17 (Freeman sure as hell didn't win this game...played like sh*t IMO)

So, looking at the 7 Bucs wins this season, please tell me which game/s Freeman "won."

If you insert a good to great QB on this team this season, the Bucs probably win these 7 games and then some.

I could do the same exact thing with the Seahawks wins.

Of course you could...but w/Russell Wilson or another good QB on this team, they don't lose 9 games this season.

jhop88

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#100 : January 03, 2013, 05:59:48 PM

When Freeman starts rising to the occasion late in the season and coming up big in big games....I'll get off his back. Till then HE SUCKS.

Like the last 4 games of 2010 when he threw 9 TDs and 0 INTs and suprise suprise the defense blew a 4th qtr lead at home to Drew Stanton.

If you can't get behind this QB then you're the one who sucks. You and the rest of this chitty front running fanbase.

Get behind him for what exactly?

His stellar record as a starter? Oh wait...

His # of playoff appearances? Oh wait...

What exactly is the reason to "get behind him?"

Why do you think QB's are solely responsible for winning games and making the playoffs?

I don't, but at some point winning has to matter. All I hear are excuses as to why Freeman is 24-34 as a starter and this team still hasn't made the playoffs w/him as the QB. Meanwhile, the teams in Washington and Indy, both w/bad defenses are in the playoffs this season. It's been shown especially recently that QBs can overcome bad defensive play to win games and make the playoffs. Freeman hasn't done either.

The QB's haven't done everything for these teams though. The Colts had a cupcake schedule this year and have played inspired under Pagano and the Redskins have had a great running game to go along with RG3 having a good season (they won both games RG3 didn't play in). And anyways, Luck was the #1 pick in the draft and is one of the best prospects to come out in decades and RG3 was very highly thought of too. Where are you expecting to get a guy like that?

The Bucs played a "cupcake" schedule as well no? And didn't the Bucs have a "great" running game too?

Regardless, this isn't one season we're talking about, it's basically 4...24-34, ZERO playoff appearances. Those are the facts. At some point, winning has to matter.

The Colts had the second easiest schedule in the league. I'm not sure where the Bucs rank, but it wasn't as easy. Look at their schedule, it was a joke.

And the Redskins running game was much more consistent then ours. Funny how Freeman gets bashed for being inconsistent yet no one says a word about the running game being inconsistent.

It wasn't as easy because the Bucs played Atlanta twice. Other than those 2 games, the Bucs had 3 games against playoff teams. Think about it:

NO twice
Carolina twice
Philly (lol @ this loss which is still astounding to me)
KC
SD
Oakland
StL
Dallas

That is 10 games against average to garbage teams. Bucs and FREEMAN went 5-5 in those games.

As for the running game, yea, it was definitely inconsistent, but again, good to great QBs overcome inconsistent running games.

jhop88

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#101 : January 03, 2013, 06:00:53 PM

You are working really hard to make a point jhop - and discredit Freeman when the bucs win, and the blaming him for losses.  Ignoring the defensive contribution to losses hurts your position.  Now if you want to point to Freeman's performance and note he hasn't done well against the top 8 teams have at it.  That is the target - having a qb who competes well against the top teams.  Stick with it and you will make a solid point.  This other stuff offered by so many other less accomplished posters - well it is unconvincing.

He played a role in their wins, but he played a bigger role in their losses.

And to your point, I think he has 3 or 4 wins in his career against teams w/a winning record...that's bad.

jhop88

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#102 : January 03, 2013, 06:02:09 PM

Freeman is currently a middle of the road QB. I don't get the emotions and tensions that some of you guys have for/against him. You win some, you lose some. Let's bolster the secondary and have some fun come September.

Does "middle of the road" win SBs int he NFL now?

I'm thinking no.

L9

Eli
Rodgers
Brees
Ben
Eli
Peyton
Ben
Brady
Brady

A "middle of the road" QB hasn't won it since the Bucs did in 2003 and we all know about the defense on that team.

Big Ben is quite middle of the pack. He's fun to watch though.

I disagree that Big Ben is "middle of the pack."

JDouble

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#103 : January 03, 2013, 06:10:54 PM

I'm already tired of this conversation. I'm sure it will go on all offseason, but I'm going to do my best to stay out of it. Everything that can be said has been said. Everyone has let their opinion be known. All that is left is repetitive conversation that degrades into garbage. Good luck to those who still believe in Freeman. Hope you are right, cause no matter what I and others think, I'm quite sure he will be our starting QB next year.


Benchwarmer#1

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#104 : January 03, 2013, 06:22:14 PM

We can all argue all day until we're blue in the face about freeman.

Point blank though, no QB is going to win consistantly with their passing defense -30th in the league. It's the main reason why freeman, and the team, are so night and day.

Naismith was right about Revis. Everyone else is a dummy.
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