Baller

[Lord Freesus]

Freeman is currently a middle of the road QB. I don't get the emotions and tensions that some of you guys have for/against him. You win some, you lose some. Let's bolster the secondary and have some fun come September.

Does "middle of the road" win SBs int he NFL now?

I'm thinking no.

L9

Eli
Rodgers
Brees
Ben
Eli
Peyton
Ben
Brady
Brady

A "middle of the road" QB hasn't won it since the Bucs did in 2003 and we all know about the defense on that team.

Big Ben is quite middle of the pack. He's fun to watch though.

I disagree that Big Ben is "middle of the pack."

I go by eye test rather than stats, but alright. Regardless of who is QB, we have to improve this D first and foremost.

[caradoc]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-sound-efx/0ap2000000120999/Sound-FX-Russell-Wilson


I think Russell Wilson single handedly made me decide that freeman sucks. I mean how can you not watch this rookie lead his team and not admit that Freeman just doesn't have "it"? I mean this guy, as a rookie, is such a leader, a motivator, and he's coaching up his receivers mid game to make adjustments. He plays so smart and makes very few mistakes. He is the anti-Freeman.

Credit the defense.

Hope this is a joke....but not sure.....

Half a joke actually....seachickens do have a much better defense though. Wilson doesn't have to post 40 points a game in order to have a chance to win. It's his first year and he certainly has played better than expected, when you consider that he wasn't first in line to start. It's a good situation for him. He has an experienced coaching staff and veteran players to depend on. I'm curious to see if he can maintain his production next year. Fig Newton had some great numbers in his rookie year. This season defenses caught up with him. Honestly I don't see that happening with Wilson. There isn't the turmoil in Seattle that there is in Carolina, and he's had decent coaching to build on.

Freeman's coaches have sucked up until this point. I am confident Schiano will fix our defense and make Freeman more consistent. The culture change is in full swing and the roster has talent. Fill a few holes, make a few adjustments in coaching and schemes, and we have a playoff team. Next year you can complain because we don't win the SB. I'll notch it up as progress and bet on 2014, with Josh Freeman.

Is that going to be before or after he walks on water, turns water into wine, and brings world peace?

Seriously man, you sound like a born-again "Schiano's Witness" with all the "I believe Schiano will blah" and "I'm confident Schiano will Blah". 

[BucBalla85]

I'm already tired of this conversation. I'm sure it will go on all offseason, but I'm going to do my best to stay out of it. Everything that can be said has been said. Everyone has let their opinion be known. All that is left is repetitive conversation that degrades into garbage. Good luck to those who still believe in Freeman. Hope you are right, cause no matter what I and others think, I'm quite sure he will be our starting QB next year.

Agree and if he has a better year next year which believe it or not, he's very capable of doing, he could our starter for next two years. What will you guys do then if that happens?

[lyronmewis]

I'll wait a year before praising Wilson. I want to see what he can do when teams gameplan for him in the offseason.

It's amazing what he's done with such little receiving talent though. Their #1 would be our #3.

[JavaRay]

I'll wait a year before praising Wilson. I want to see what he can do when teams gameplan for him in the offseason.

It's amazing what he's done with such little receiving talent though. Their #1 would be our #3.

Exactly.  Freeman has all the talent in the world surrounding him and he still stinks.

[Detrimental]

Wait, so when Freeman went on that great 5-game stretch, it was all him right?

But then when he ultimately failed this season and stunk it up the final 6 games, it's the fault of:

injured o line

inconsistent RB

bad play calling?

Haha, I see how this works now!!!

How about Russell Wilson is a good QB because well, he's a good QB. You obviously didn't watch him at NC St or Wisky huh? His college numbers were absurdly good so despite what some may think, this season is no fluke for him. On the other hand, you have Josh Freeman who couldn't even light it up in the no-defense playing Big 12. Some of you really are clueless.

First off....point out that I said Freeman was solely responsible for our 5 game skid? Thank you for jumping to conclusions about me giving credit to Free for his downfall and highs. So how does it work now???

Second, I've seen him play in college. He isn't that great to me, solid all around Qb. He benefits greatly from his supporting cast and there's no doubt about it. I'm not ready to crown him yet.

Thirdly, newton was much worse last year than this his rookie year so yes he did slump.

Next

First off, you're confused.

Second, I guess he benefited greatly from that supporting cast at NC St too!!! If you didn't think Russell Wilson was great in college, there's no point in even discussing anything w/you because you're clueless.

Thirdly, Newton WASN'T much worse last year than his rookie season...check post #45 in this thread and get back to me.

Next

I'm confused, yet YOUR the one that brought Freeman's highs and lows into this discussion then tried to link that to me. lmao!!

Um, Wilson wasn't even that good at NC State. This so called accurate guy completed 58% of his passes there. And yes, TJ Graham was on that team in 2010 - who went in the 3rd round a year later. You are a dumbass if you don't think Wilson was helped a TON by that Wisconsin offensive line play and that dominant running attack lead by the nations best RB, statistically. So yeah, his game has been MASKED by a legendary running attack. Its the reason why he looked so great. He was garbage at NC State and transferred b/c he knew he wasn't crap with nobody around him.

Thirdly, Cam Newton has a lower completion % this year, fewer passing yards, more fumbles, DESPITE only averaging 2 passing attempts per game less this year than his rookie year.

Carry on.

[caradoc]

Most QBs don't regress like Freeman did without a major injury ( Palmer). I wouldn't expect Wilson not be good. Teams have a lot of film on him already. It doesn't take months to gameplan.

Wow, regressing to 27:17 td:int and 4065 yards. Yep that is very unusual regression right there! 

Those stats seem to be a nice consolation prize for people who can't see beyond a numbers webpage on NFL.com

There is no consolation for not making the playoffs. It's just interesting how Freeman's numbers stack up in  comparison to the other guys who do his job. He's in the top 10 in TD's and yardage and the offense is #13 in scoring. Contrast that with scoring defense where seattle is #1 and we are #23rd. Yet the core of this thread is the difference between Seatlle and Tampa is summed up in Wilson vs Freeman.  That, my friend, is laughable!   I am certain Seattle's defense would have stopped the Giants, Eagles and Redskins from scoring late and NO wouldn't have scored 35 against them and the Bucs would be at least 11-5.

No.  The core of this thread has nothing to do with Seattle v. Tampa.  The core of this thread is Wilson compared to Freeman; how he leads, his maturity, and his play.  THe Seattle vs. Tampa part is just brought in by the Freepologists to explain away unpleasant direct comparisons.

[The Anti-Java]

I love the dudes game, if nothing is there, he tucks and runs.  If only Freeman would do that once in awhile.

[GrimmReaper]

Russell Wilson is a stud. He has the leadership ability that is lacking here in Tampa.

His awareness is also very good. It seems our QB(#5) can never take advantage of a defense. He runs the play that is called...even if it is a run play and 9 men are in the box. It doesn't matter to him. He simply runs the plays that were called and locks onto his primary target. All the great QB's have pump fakes to make safeties move, and scan the field for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th options. Freeman doesn't do this. When defenses study our team they will be able to figure out if we are going to run, or pass most of the time based on our formations. Knowing Freeman won't check down, they have a huge advantage. 

Freeman is talented and does have upside...........but he is running out of time as far as picking up on the small details that make QB's great.

[-ts]

Can't really say anything about Free that hasn't already been said. The guy cannot go into next season unopposed. I'm not much of a fan of the class coming up, but I wouldn't mind grabbing a QB in the 2nd or 3rd. Bray or Murray would be my choices.

I would also really try and get Ryan Mallet away from the Pats as well depending on the price.

Would also consider Matt Flynn as a lower option.

[MiltonMack21]

So Java survived the banning party?

[Biggs3535]

Point blank though, no QB is going to win consistantly with their passing defense -30th in the league.

Incorrect.

[jhop88]

Wait, so when Freeman went on that great 5-game stretch, it was all him right?

But then when he ultimately failed this season and stunk it up the final 6 games, it's the fault of:

injured o line

inconsistent RB

bad play calling?

Haha, I see how this works now!!!

How about Russell Wilson is a good QB because well, he's a good QB. You obviously didn't watch him at NC St or Wisky huh? His college numbers were absurdly good so despite what some may think, this season is no fluke for him. On the other hand, you have Josh Freeman who couldn't even light it up in the no-defense playing Big 12. Some of you really are clueless.

First off....point out that I said Freeman was solely responsible for our 5 game skid? Thank you for jumping to conclusions about me giving credit to Free for his downfall and highs. So how does it work now???

Second, I've seen him play in college. He isn't that great to me, solid all around Qb. He benefits greatly from his supporting cast and there's no doubt about it. I'm not ready to crown him yet.

Thirdly, newton was much worse last year than this his rookie year so yes he did slump.

Next

First off, you're confused.

Second, I guess he benefited greatly from that supporting cast at NC St too!!! If you didn't think Russell Wilson was great in college, there's no point in even discussing anything w/you because you're clueless.

Thirdly, Newton WASN'T much worse last year than his rookie season...check post #45 in this thread and get back to me.

Next

I'm confused, yet YOUR the one that brought Freeman's highs and lows into this discussion then tried to link that to me. lmao!!

Um, Wilson wasn't even that good at NC State. This so called accurate guy completed 58% of his passes there. And yes, TJ Graham was on that team in 2010 - who went in the 3rd round a year later. You are a dumbass if you don't think Wilson was helped a TON by that Wisconsin offensive line play and that dominant running attack lead by the nations best RB, statistically. So yeah, his game has been MASKED by a legendary running attack. Its the reason why he looked so great. He was garbage at NC State and transferred b/c he knew he wasn't crap with nobody around him.

Thirdly, Cam Newton has a lower completion % this year, fewer passing yards, more fumbles, DESPITE only averaging 2 passing attempts per game less this year than his rookie year.

Carry on.

Oh wow, he had a 3rd round draft pick on the offense?! Stellar!!! And I agree, the 76 TDs/26 INTs he put up at NC St proves he was "garbage" there. BTW, he didn't transfer b/c "he knew he wasn't crap with nobody around him." He left because the coach was tired of him playing baseball. Wow, you're f'ing clueless.

As for Newton, he had 32 less pass attempts this season and 182 less yards. If you go by his 57.7 completion % this season, that means of those 32 less attempts, he would've completed about 18. At 13.8 yards per completion, that's about 248 yards. Like I said, you're clueless. Keep telling yourself and me that Newton slumped this season. And I'll keep telling you that he didn't. He had a similar if not better season than Freeman.

LOL @ the notion that Wilson was "garbage" at NC St.

[tbc_bucs]

He had a great year. I want to see him repeat it.

Freeman went 25-6. He wasn't a rookie then though so you are making a good point

[jhop88]

I'm already tired of this conversation. I'm sure it will go on all offseason, but I'm going to do my best to stay out of it. Everything that can be said has been said. Everyone has let their opinion be known. All that is left is repetitive conversation that degrades into garbage. Good luck to those who still believe in Freeman. Hope you are right, cause no matter what I and others think, I'm quite sure he will be our starting QB next year.

Agreed...I'm too am done talking about Freeman until next season.