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audioboy

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: January 04, 2013, 01:50:54 PM

Yesterday was driving home listening to DFW sports talk.   They did a Keepers, Creepers and Flatliners segment of the Cowboys.  Wondered the same thing about the Bucs

Basic Rules:

Keepers, players who exceeded expectations and have the arrow pointed UP
Creepers-  Failed to live up to expectations SO BADLY they should be candidates for release
FlatLines-  Got what we expected.

Not gonna do the whole roster, but here is my take:

Keepers-

Freeman
martin
Vincent Jackson
Mike Williams
Nicks
Demar Dotson (provides depth)
Stocker
McCoy
Bowers
DNT
Bennett
David
Foster
Johnson (depth at CB)
Barron
Ronde
Merideth

CREEPERS

Blount
Trueblood
Benn
Heyward
Black
Tandy
Goode
Wright
Lewis
Underwood
Larsen

Flatliners:

Lorig
Penn
Zuttah
Miller
Black
Koenig
Barth
Dallas Clark


any obvious disagreements?

yuccaneers

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#1 : January 04, 2013, 02:01:19 PM

I would say that Miller, Lorig and Zuttah should be placed in the keepers category - Underwood probably should be in the flat-liners - Dekoda Watson should be placed in the creepers while he is a good special teamer - he still hasn't been able to start - even when the team lost Black to injury - Larsen should probably be in the flat-liners as he is what one expects not flashy - just your lunch bucket type that does  nothing great but has been serviceable.
: January 04, 2013, 02:02:54 PM yuccaneers


BucBalla85

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#2 : January 04, 2013, 02:01:59 PM

I think Freeman caused more doubters than anything. I dont think it would surprise anybody if they made some kind of move this offseason to possibly replace Freeman if he keeps up his play. The question I keep coming to is "who"? Nobody has seemed to really answer that very well.

BucNY

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#3 : January 04, 2013, 02:02:33 PM

Uh big time disagreement with Lorig, Miller and Zuttah.

Miller and Lorig both had breakout seasons and Zuttah was again moved mid season and held up very good. If Zuttah can stay at center he'll be a very good player for this team.

Schiano sees the potential in A. Benn that I see and I think he'll get one more shot next year before he gets sent packing.

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BucBalla85

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#4 : January 04, 2013, 02:04:02 PM

I hope we see something from Benn. What has been with him this year? I wonder why they kept Underwood in there when Benn was the second round pick who could use some experience.

Naismith

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#5 : January 04, 2013, 02:04:24 PM

Everything I've read about Quincy Black, including today's chat with Scott Reynolds, was that he played well in his role this season. He might be overpaid, especially for his more limited snaps, but I think he exceeded the very low expectations people had for him.

There\'s a very real chance the Bucs waive [Revis] before next season. At the very least, it will be a discussion worth having.

BucBalla85

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#6 : January 04, 2013, 02:06:07 PM

I didnt have a problem with Black this year besides his salary. However I do think they could get an upgrade there and could use the money.

The Franchi5e

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#7 : January 04, 2013, 02:08:15 PM

Maybe I'm not sure what your definition of "flatliners" is......but all of those guys played well this year with the exception of Quincy Black, who might not be playing football again for all we know. The "creepers" category on the other hand **CENSORED**ing sucks. I could care less if a single one of those guys are back with the team next year.

yuccaneers

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#8 : January 04, 2013, 02:11:01 PM

Maybe I'm not sure what your definition of "flatliners" is......but all of those guys played well this year with the exception of Quincy Black, who might not be playing football again for all we know. The "creepers" category on the other hand **CENSORED**ing sucks. I could care less if a single one of those guys are back with the team next year.

I think he's inferring that all the flat-liners played to his expectations. Nothing more, nothing less. But about what he expected out of them.


audioboy

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#9 : January 04, 2013, 02:12:37 PM

Flatliners are basically those who played as expected, it's not a negative term per se it's just they are what they re and didn't either exceed expectations or greatly disappoint

I did debate and probably should move Lorig to Keepers.

Still think Miller and Zuttah gave us just what we expected, Miller clogs up the middle and takes pressure of McCoy, he provides no pass rush, again not a negative that is what we expect from him

yuccaneers

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#10 : January 04, 2013, 02:16:56 PM

Flatliners are basically those who played as expected, it's not a negative term per se it's just they are what they re and didn't either exceed expectations or greatly disappoint

I did debate and probably should move Lorig to Keepers.

Still think Miller and Zuttah gave us just what we expected, Miller clogs up the middle and takes pressure of McCoy, he provides no pass rush, again not a negative that is what we expect from him

After watching Miller in 2011 there is no way anyone expected him to be such a vital spoke in the wheel in catapulting the Bucs from dead last against the run to number one versus the run this season.


BucBalla85

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#11 : January 04, 2013, 02:19:06 PM

Our dline played the run phenominally, its the pass rush that needs a kick in the ass. I know the corners need to cover better but lets amp up the pass rush too.

chace1986

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#12 : January 04, 2013, 02:44:12 PM

Flatliners are basically those who played as expected, it's not a negative term per se it's just they are what they re and didn't either exceed expectations or greatly disappoint

I did debate and probably should move Lorig to Keepers.

Still think Miller and Zuttah gave us just what we expected, Miller clogs up the middle and takes pressure of McCoy, he provides no pass rush, again not a negative that is what we expect from him

Then according to this, Freeman should be in with the "flatliners"


Rusty

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#13 : January 04, 2013, 04:55:40 PM

Yesterday was driving home listening to DFW sports talk.   They did a Keepers, Creepers and Flatliners segment of the Cowboys.  Wondered the same thing about the Bucs

Basic Rules:

Keepers, players who exceeded expectations and have the arrow pointed UP
Creepers-  Failed to live up to expectations SO BADLY they should be candidates for release
FlatLines-  Got what we expected.

Not gonna do the whole roster, but here is my take:

Keepers-

Freeman-One more year with a better line, defense and weapons or he's in trouble
Martin-Pleas stay healthy-you are special
Vincent Jackson-Superman
Mike Williams-Good player. Please improve your routes and improve QB/WR communication. Could be special.
Nicks-The rock
Demar Dotson-Put him in Pillsbury Doughboy Penn's place
Stocker-Showed some promise in the last couple of games. Make or break next year
McCoy-Lived up to potential. Congrats on Pro Bowl. get your hands on the QB/sacks. Please stay healthy and get some junk yard dog nastiness in your game. Be a nice guy off the field, not on it
Bowers-Could be special if healthy and plays a solid next year. Injuries could be a long term problem
DNT-Kinda excited about this guy. let's see what he does next year. Relentless
Bennett-I like him but would not pay big money for a good, not great player. Might walk
David-Pure stud
Foster-Not Hardy Nickerson but really solid and dependable. We need a 3rd LB like the other two to make the LB corps special.
Johnson (depth at CB)-Painful season for him but I really like him a lot. Long term keeper at whatever level he finally settles into be it starter, nickle or dime
Barron-One tough hombre. His coverage skills looked better at the end. Will need another year to reach special level.
Ronde-Thank you, thank you. Enjoy the retirement (please be our defensive backfield coach)
Merideth-Servicable but not the long term answer as he is a little old and a little expensive

CREEPERS

Blount-One demensional. Outta here (loved him when he got rolling though). Trade him
Trueblood-AMF...thank God
Benn-He's either going to be our slot receiver and stay healthy or not
Heyward-I think it's over
Black-Yes he played better BUT not for all that money. Either he restructures or he's gone. Trade him
Tandy-Nice depth, could work his way up the ladder next year
Goode-He'll see the field as a rotational player next year and should contribute
Wright-One way ticket to the CFL or the SPA. You want fries with thaat/paper or plastic?
Lewis-Laquan I'd keep for depth/competition, Myron for all I know, with his teflon suit, he could be starting nexxt year. I'd cut him
Underwood-Nice guy but when given the slot position, major disappointment. put him behind Jackson or Williams for depth
Larsen-Depth at best. Weakest link on Oline

Flatliners:

Lorig-Some have suggested we eliminate the FB position. I thought he was pretty good at FB. Caught the ball, blocked for Martin and ran it a few times. Servicable at FB. If not, move him to TE/HB/FB hybrid
Penn-To me, he came in out of shape and used the preseason too get in shape because Schiano was out of options. As usual, played well early on then faded as the pounds returned. Trade him for a pick.
Zuttah-Back to center where he belongs
Miller-Finally contributed, did a hell of a job but may want some real $'s. If that's the case he walks.
Black-see above. You had him on here twice
Koenig-$3 million for  a punter? Could bring in cheaper competition
Barth-Absolute money.
Dallas Clark-A little pricey but really solid. I'd use him more for one more year to mentor Stocker and Danny Noble
Joseph-Older(30), expensive, can't make a full season, not all that and a bag of chips. Trade him
Gibson-Solid rotational guy but a little expensive

Those I have listed as tradeable, I would get whatever I could for this year. We don't even have 22'keepers' (17) and almost no depth. We need 35 solid contributers and 4 stars on offense and 4 stars on defense, plus 7 Inactives on game day, plus 8 PS players. Factor in the inevitable 15 players that go on IR every year (look it up it's alarming) and that's 56 MORE players from the list above, FA's and draft over the course of next year. We won't get them all next year but for sure we need to get better by 15 to 20 players next year and another 15 to 20 the following year to get to 45 strong on every game day in spite of inevitable injuries. I really believe if Schiano is going to make it to 5 years and be a consitently competetive/playoff team, this is the year he knows what he has, knows what he needs both short term and long term and the year he purges ANY player/coach that he doen't feel will help in the long run. I have faith he will objectively critique everything and everyone from top to bottom, then work closely with Dom to spend as much of that $55 million available to bring in the next Jackson/Nicks/David/Barron/Martin.



                \'Every day above ground is a good day\'

chace1986

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#14 : January 04, 2013, 05:07:58 PM

I have faith he will objectively critique everything and everyone from top to bottom, then work closely with Dom to spend as much of that $55 million available to bring in the next Jackson/Nicks/David/Barron/Martin.

I pretty much agree with everything except the hope the he brings in the next "Barron"

Barron was not a successful pick. That #7 selection represents a waste of a premium top ten draft pick. Something that I hope they don't do again. Barron will probably turn out to be solid, but a solid SS is something you find in the 3rd round. Not at #7 overall.

To me, if we had another Barron-type pick, we would be spending #13 on a FS like Reid or Vaccaro, when a guy like Jefferson or McDonald can be had in the 2nd/3rd rds and the difference of talent between the two sets of players is barely measurable.
: January 04, 2013, 05:13:27 PM chace1986

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