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Kodiak

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: January 04, 2013, 10:22:02 PM

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8807079/nfl-jaws-2012-qb-rankings-regular-season-peyton-manning-league-best

1: P. Manning
2: Rogers
3: Brady
4: Ryan
5: Brees
6: Roethlisberger
7: E. Manning
8: Flacco
9: Schaub
10: Griffin
11: Luck
12: Cutler
13: Wilson
14: Kaepernick
15: Romo
16: Dalton
17: Rivers
18: Newton
19: Freeman
20: Stafford

There were 12 other QB's on the list. I only go to 20 so you can see where he had Freeman.

As for what he said about Freeman. I won't give the direct quote as that is insider info but he basically said that Josh was a big disappointment down the stretch and he looked a lot like last year and he had very bad mechanics and has a lot of work to do in the offseason.
: January 04, 2013, 11:30:28 PM Kodiak

Whoa...shiver me ****in timbers!


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#1 : January 04, 2013, 10:36:52 PM

What'd he have to say about Josh for us non-insiders?


yuccaneers

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#2 : January 04, 2013, 10:39:32 PM

Other than maybe Culter and Rivers being dropped down some and Freeman being above those two its pretty close to how i remember.


SunnyD

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#3 : January 04, 2013, 10:42:45 PM

Andy Dalton and Freeman are too high.

It's been a long time since they played good football.

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#4 : January 04, 2013, 10:43:17 PM

Apparently a lot can change in a month :

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/67079/jaws-josh-freeman-becoming-superstar

"Jaworksi spent a lot of time singing the praises of the Tampa Bay quarterback in a recent conference call with the national media.
...
"I think clearly Freeman is on his way to becoming a superstar in this league. He's got all the attributes you would want in a quarterback. Clearly those are being refined."



BucBalla85

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#5 : January 04, 2013, 10:54:19 PM

If he were more accurate on those short passes he'd be very good. I don't understand how that can't get better. Is that wishful thinking on my part??

Feel Real Good

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#6 : January 04, 2013, 10:59:11 PM

Can't argue with Freeman's overall spot, but I think Brees, Eli, Flacco, Luck, and Cutler are a little too high.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#7 : January 04, 2013, 11:19:52 PM

If he were more accurate on those short passes he'd be very good. I don't understand how that can't get better. Is that wishful thinking on my part??

It's because he can't take anything off his throws.  He has pretty much zero touch.  It's a muscle memory issue and that crap is essentially impossible to change, just ask Tebow.



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#8 : January 05, 2013, 12:31:51 AM

If he were more accurate on those short passes he'd be very good. I don't understand how that can't get better. Is that wishful thinking on my part??

It's because he can't take anything off his throws.  He has pretty much zero touch.  It's a muscle memory issue and that crap is essentially impossible to change, just ask Tebow.

So if this is nearly "impossible" to fix, why do they even try with these guys. It's clearly an important thing for a qb to be successful at this level.

nitey

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#9 : January 05, 2013, 08:43:04 AM

Frankly, I think the fans are 'overreacting' badly with Freeman. In 2010 and 2011 he had completion percentages of over 60% so it's not as if he can't get to a 60% completion rate. In 14 of the 16 games that Freeman played this year, he played well enough to put his team in position to win the game or in several games during the winning streak, was the reason that the team won.

Have we forgotten the strings of really bad quarterbacks that we have had here in Tampa? Have we learned nothing about letting an inconsistent quarterback leave too soon only to go somewhere else and be successful?

I agree that the Bucs need a more competent backup quarterback, but working with Freeman in the off season will payoff a lot more. Up until the Eagles game, the majority of the board was willing to give Freeman an extension, then all of a sudden Freeman's mechanics broke down again and he reverted to the 2011 version of the bad Josh.

Freeman is inconsistent, can show a lack of touch on short balls, can lock on to a receiver when things are stressful, and can show signs of immaturity on the field when things go against him, but he is also a hard worker, very coach-able, reportedly a good leader and only 24.

Only 24 with 4 years in the NFL. Which means that he came into the NFL when he probably would have benefited more by staying in college and becoming more mature. He has also had 3 different offensive coordinators and several different quarterback coaches. I'm of the opinion that Sullivan will improve Freeman this off season assuming he gets the chance to spend a full offseason with him.

Remember, in the year he was drafted, the plan was to sit him the entire 1st year and because of that, he was basically ignored in his 1st off season and training camp and what training he did get, came from a offensive coordinator that didn't even make the opening day game. The 2nd year, he got an off season with Olsen and was able to build on some of the promise that he showed in the 2009 season and had a fine 2010 season. In 2011, we had the lockout and Freeman basically ran the off season himself (at 23) and basically screwed himself up (IMO) by training and believing that the training he was providing was good enough. He showed leadership in that off season by organizing those work outs, but frankly what was learned was probably not good techniques and it showed in the 2011 season were Freeman was full of bad mechanics.

Last season, our coaching staff was hired late, Sullivan/Turner identified a number of Freeman's issues, but it's apparent that when Freeman is stressed, he still reverts back to his older habits, but there WAS some success last year. Assuming that Sullivan stays at least another year (and I really, really hope it's two), I think he'll continue to address Freeman's mechanics. Now that he's had a year with Josh, I think the man probably knows what he can and can't do better than starting with a new quarterback. Josh will also be 25 years old and hopefully can look at the things he did successfully in 2012 and apply those lessons when he gets under pressure in 2013.

So, to sum up a longer post than I planned. The Bucs are wise to make Freeman work for that contract extension this year. I still believe Freeman can be a top 10 quarterback in the league, perhaps not top 5, but with Sullivan's help, somewhere between 6-10. Freeman I think will still have inconsistency issues again this season, and I think that while his completion rate will improve, fans will still think it's not high enough. I also think that Sullivan/Schiano/Freeman will work to avoid those two games were Freeman had bad games and work to make sure that when it appears Freeman is headed down that road again, they will have a plan to get him back on track.

I really think 2013 is going to be a good year to be a Buc fan. (I should make that my tag line ... <grin>)

Success is when Skill meets OpportunityFailure is when Fantasy meets Reality

JC5100

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#10 : January 05, 2013, 08:48:03 AM

Can I get a breakdown of defenses with the lead in the 4th qtr.

docbravo

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#11 : January 05, 2013, 10:43:15 AM

Why do people put stock in what these talking heads say? He's simply stating the obvious! Beginning of the year he had Cutler in the top 5 and Kapernick was nowhere to be found. Who gives a flip what Jaws thinks?

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#12 : January 06, 2013, 01:14:23 PM

Jaws is correct that Stafford and Free could have finished the year in the top 15, but inconsistent play bumped them down a bit.  Still, I think very highly of Stafford and Freeman given their body of work is more known then the new comers higher on the ranking.

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#13 : January 06, 2013, 01:17:39 PM

Can I get a breakdown of defenses with the lead in the 4th qtr.

You mean a list-o-excuses?  Sure.  You've offered them up many times.


Boid Fink

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#14 : January 06, 2013, 02:27:26 PM

Bring in Luke McCown.

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