Laundry list of issues with Coach Schiano...

[GrimmReaper]

For me, the first issue is the defensive scheme. It is clearly not an NFL ready scheme.

The next issue is with how he treats the players. He is treating these guys like school kids. They are professionals, and they WILL resent the coach for treating them as kids. Ask them off the record and they will tell you.

The next red flag was the kneel down plays. It's unethical. It's the equivalent of asking your 8 year old kid to say he's only 6 so that he can get a free meal at a restaraunt. It's an abuse of power to have your players do something unethical. If I was GM he would have been fired on the spot. He has zero moral standing on this team because of this abuse of power and therefore will never be regarded as a true leader inside that locker room....IMO. This one was the "game over" signal for me.

The next issue is his inability to make timely adjustments. All year he was barking at the players to "do your job" but the scheme sucks. It WON'T work. Imagine going to work everyday and trying to pound a square peg into a round hole. Not only are you frustrated that you can't seem to get any production, but then you have this idiot yell at you to "do your job".

Case in point is the ATL game. Mr. Stubborn changed up the defense(probably at the urging of the FO) and Biggers looked like a Pro Bowler. Leanord Johnson looked great. Danny Gorrer looked like a pro. How did this happen? The players were suddenly given a round peg to pound through the hole and they proved they CAN do it with the right scheme.

The criticism of Josh Freeman in public was also a mistake IMO. Freeman had one bad game, and after the coach's comments it spiraled into 5 straight bad games. "A work in progress" he surely did turn out to be, after it looked like he had turned the corner. This was unnecessary IMO. These issues are better left out of the press. As soon as he declared Freeman a work in progress.....Freeman instantly became that. This is no coincidence.

Also, the early criticism of the players after the early losses in which he said he would get the players to do their jobs.........ignoring his own complicity in the matter. He clearly said...THEY(players) need to get better, not....WE need to get better. This was a clear indication that Schiano has divided the locker room between the players and the coaches. It was not US, but rather THEM(the players) that need to improve. I have been in these kinds of locker rooms and it is hell. Conversly, a team that works together to figure things out produces a great environment, where ideas are bounced around between coaches and players, and guess what? Sometimes the players help the coaches figure it out. Sometimes the players can make the coach look good, but only if the coach is open to such things. Clearly Schiano, with his my way or the highway mentality will never cultivate this kind of cooperation inside his locker rooms. The incident with Hayward and Brian Cox was indicative of the divided locker room syndrome.

If he was a proven coach with a proven scheme he could have gotten away with this, but he is not NFL proven. He simply ASSuMEd that the players were the issue without looking inward at his schemes. He simply has no basis to assume that his chemes will work at the NFL level. He has no track record. The NFL requires adaptability, and Coach Schiano, while he didn't prove much this year, certainly proved that he has no ability to adapt, or adjust his schemes. It took 15 games to make defensive adjustments. That is not good enough. He has a rigid belief that his scheme will work if we just practice a little harder, and focus our attention on the details. Just keep pounding that square peg and eventually all of that hard work will pay off.

Other than those issues, he is great.

[Morgan]

disgruntled fan

[GrimmReaper]

Not at all, Morgan. In fact, I love Coach Schiano. I'd just love him a little bit more if he were the coach at Mississippi State.

Nice propaganda, though. It's nice to see you get some use out of your military training.

[BucBalla85]

Your not a disgruntled fan? The guy who just said he was gonna post nonstop negativity towards Schiano all offseason? All I saw up there was whine whine whine. It's not gonna do **CENSORED** because everybody who's got a brain knows Schiano isn't going anywhere. Your whining and complaining is just that. Your wasting your time. So what does this accomplish? Absolutely nothing. Well maybe Schiano fails down the line and you can say you were right and some people will give you a pat on the back but most will say he was just an **CENSORED** all this time. Why do I care if he was right or not? Barely anybody on here does. All everybody hopes is that this team does well. I get the sense from you that you want coach Schiano to fail so that the one or two people will slap you on the back and say you were right. We were wrong to doubt you. Does so much ones life....

[Boid Fink]

Good gracious...Biggers looked like a pro bowler?

Even if I gave you that one game, there are countless other games, that regardless of scheme, where Biggers just doesn't udnerstand how to turn his stupid head around, how to stay upright out of his breaks, how to track the ball when he does decide to spin his skinny neck around...

Biggers is a turd.

[youngone]

Biggers looked like a pro bowler... Pffffttt!

Sure buddy.

[bucfan33]

I really laugh at all you "scheme Sucks" guys. what do you actually know about any NFL defensive scheme?
This "scheme" was able to turn the worst run defense in the league into the best in the league in one season. They turned a non-tackling, soft defense into an agressive tackling team that was a leader in Tackles for loss. Yes, they didn't get enough of a pass rush and the pass defense gave up way too much yardage, but they did all this while losing there best pass rusher, starting 2 rookies, moving a HOFer from corner to a new position and losing 8 games by there best corners due to there own stupidity. Do they need a lot of improvement? without a doubt. But if you didn't see the improvements this year then you really don't know what youre talking about.

[Hayseed]

I love the "how he treats the players" argument. This is the same group of "professionals" that clearly quit on Raheem Morris last season. Act like professionals if you want to be treated like professionals.

[olafberserker]

fool

[Blaze688]

For me, the first issue is the defensive scheme. It is clearly not an NFL ready scheme.

So he'll change it.  Big deal.

The next issue is with how he treats the players. He is treating these guys like school kids. They are professionals, and they WILL resent the coach for treating them as kids. Ask them off the record and they will tell you.

Landry, Lombardi, Cowher, Coughlin, Ditka, Parcells, Brown, and a ton of others commanded strict regimes.  Schiano's not breaking new ground with his disciplinarian's approach.  Whether it proves fruitful remains to be seen, but it has worked in the past, and it will work -- somewhere -- in the future.

The next red flag was the kneel down plays. It's unethical.

Says you.  He didn't hide the fact that he was bringing the house.  He didn't draw up some exotic delayed blitz with the sole intent of injuring any of the opposing team.  He stacked his line in four point stances, piled the linebackers in behind them, and had them all cheat toward the center of the line.  If you're a lineman for New York, and you don't see what's coming, then you're a retard.

He has zero moral standing on this team because of this abuse of power and therefore will never be regarded as a true leader inside that locker room....IMO. This one was the "game over" signal for me.

The game wasn't over because the Giants decided they didn't want to play anymore.  And it's not like Schiano called the crash blitz when we were down by three scores.  A fumbled snap could've changed the outcome of that game, and I commend the coach for nutting up and making that call.

The next issue is his inability to make timely adjustments. All year he was barking at the players to "do your job" but the scheme sucks. It WON'T work. Imagine going to work everyday and trying to pound a square peg into a round hole. Not only are you frustrated that you can't seem to get any production, but then you have this idiot yell at you to "do your job".

Put Ronde Barber, Brian Kelly, John Lynch, and Dexter Jackson in coverage -- in any defense you'd like -- and they'd've been useless with a lack of pass rush.

Case in point is the ATL game. Mr. Stubborn changed up the defense(probably at the urging of the FO) and Biggers looked like a Pro Bowler. Leanord Johnson looked great. Danny Gorrer looked like a pro. How did this happen? The players were suddenly given a round peg to pound through the hole and they proved they CAN do it with the right scheme.

This is all very unsubstantiated.  Who said Schiano changed the defense, and in what capacity?  And do you really think Biggers, Johnson, and Gorrer -- a seventh-round pick spent, collectively, among the three of them -- can consistently perform with the right scheme?  That seems awfully unrealistic.

The criticism of Josh Freeman in public was also a mistake IMO. Freeman had one bad game, and after the coach's comments it spiraled into 5 straight bad games. "A work in progress" he surely did turn out to be, after it looked like he had turned the corner. This was unnecessary IMO. These issues are better left out of the press. As soon as he declared Freeman a work in progress.....Freeman instantly became that. This is no coincidence.

This is no coincidence?  If you really think Freeman's that fragile, then our starting quarterback has bigger problems than pocket presence and mechanics.

Also, the early criticism of the players after the early losses in which he said he would get the players to do their jobs.........ignoring his own complicity in the matter. He clearly said...THEY(players) need to get better, not....WE need to get better. This was a clear indication that Schiano has divided the locker room between the players and the coaches. It was not US, but rather THEM(the players) that need to improve.

Schiano said many, many times that he had to do a better job as a coach.  I actually can't remember a single instance of him shirking responsibility.

I have been in these kinds of locker rooms and it is hell. Conversly, a team that works together to figure things out produces a great environment, where ideas are bounced around between coaches and players, and guess what? Sometimes the players help the coaches figure it out. Sometimes the players can make the coach look good, but only if the coach is open to such things. Clearly Schiano, with his my way or the highway mentality will never cultivate this kind of cooperation inside his locker rooms. The incident with Hayward and Brian Cox was indicative of the divided locker room syndrome.

You keep assuming there's a best approach to constructing an NFL team.  Because Schiano's working things differently than you'd choose to doesn't make him wrong, or incompetent, or doomed.  There've been 25 Super Bowl-winning coaches, and they've all done it differently.

If he was a proven coach with a proven scheme he could have gotten away with this, but he is not NFL proven. He simply ASSuMEd that the players were the issue without looking inward at his schemes. He simply has no basis to assume that his chemes will work at the NFL level. He has no track record. The NFL requires adaptability, and Coach Schiano, while he didn't prove much this year, certainly proved that he has no ability to adapt, or adjust his schemes. It took 15 games to make defensive adjustments. That is not good enough. He has a rigid belief that his scheme will work if we just practice a little harder, and focus our attention on the details. Just keep pounding that square peg and eventually all of that hard work will pay off.

You're awfully hard on the concept of assumptions, considering your entire platform is built on them.

Fact: Schiano charged the kneeldown.  Assumption: it was unethically inspired.
Fact: Schiano's defense was bad.  Assumption: it was a product of his stubbornness.
Fact: Schiano is strict.  Assumption: it's dividing the locker room.

There's nothing deeper than that.  Not yet.

[Redwave]

Granted I'm new to this board, but Grimm Reaper, don't you think there might have been some hardass heavyhanded tactics necessary to achieve the incredible uphill climb
in turning the culture around in TB.  I expect he'll do what so many managers in all walks of life do, by backing off some after setting the tone.
There was some talent  left to work with, but who here would feel good about inheriting the juvenile attitudes, discipline, work ethic, effort, etc..., that much of this team put on display in 2011.
I hated the way they finished this season, but found such early success more surprising than the 2nd half slide.
I'll be interested in if Schiano has learned enough about his players, coordinators, and opponents to apply effective in-game adjustments in 2013.

[Legend]

I don't know if we can fully blame the scheme yet. We had some of the worst CBs in the NFL last year. Biggers has never looked good. Wright well he blows, Talib wasn't here long enough to tell if he fit this new scheme, Johnson was a undrafted rookie thrown into a starting job. The rest of the group was basically scraps from other teams.

[The Franchi5e]

I really like Schiano but I will say that what I heard about his failures to adjust during games at Rutgers looked like he was doing the same as coach of the Bucs. But he did have the worst group of cornerbacks I've ever seen in my life in the NFL so I'd have to give the guy the benefit of the doubt as far as that's concered. After we upgrade at the position significantly this offseason we'll see what the real problem was.

[caradoc]

This couldn't have gone in your other "fire Schiano" thread?

[Bayfisher]

"You don't win a war by digging a foxhole and sitting in it. ... You need to attack," Belichick said at his Wednesday news conference.