Two elite QBs.......

[Biggs3535]

With the way Freeman gets disrespected on here you'd think the Bucs were 8-0 without him since '09 instead of 0-8.

I love when this guy goes to cherry picking statistics.  Could you list the games you are referring to, in which they were "without" him, please?

[Hayseed]

........will now watch the rest of the playoffs on tv like most of the rest of us. Peyton Manning coughed up the game. The rest of his team played well enough to win. He choked again.

Aaron Rogers is headed for Canton no doubt, but looked very ordinary tonight.

While i agree that Peyton pulled a "Peyton", is it Rodgers' fault that their Defense was gutted for almost 600 yds?

No one seems to cut Freeman slack for that. 

For the record, I absolutely agree. GB is one dimensional (Rogers) and they got exposed BIG TIME!

[Hate]

........will now watch the rest of the playoffs on tv like most of the rest of us. Peyton Manning coughed up the game. The rest of his team played well enough to win. He choked again.

Aaron Rogers is headed for Canton no doubt, but looked very ordinary tonight.

While i agree that Peyton pulled a "Peyton", is it Rodgers' fault that their Defense was gutted for almost 600 yds?

No one seems to cut Freeman slack for that. 

I've never blamed Free for the shortcomings of the defense....  i blame Free for inconsistant play, mental lapses, staring down receivers, inaccuracy, immobility, and my perception that he lacks of fire, passion and moxie!!

[1sparkybuc]

      Good thread!
      Yep, John Elway thought all he needed was a QB to get him the Lombardi, as the Broncs seemed to be set everywhere else. But, a Tanard Jackson moment by their S, then a Brett Favre moment by Peyton and that was that... And remember, OUR pass D vs the Broncos confused Peyton for much of our game in Denver too...

      Some points well taken; as the old cliche goes after most any loss, "there's plenty of blame to spread around". BLAME should be as much part of a team as PRAISE.

      Flacco beating Manning really did showcase Freeman's skillset and gave BUCs fans hope; seriously. And, Flacco kept his poise despite a few brain-farts of his own... HOPE Josh was watching!
 
      Very DEFINITELY takes more than just an elite QB; perhaps the best example of a team game.

Thank you. Freeman had 8 interceptions over the course of two games. That is totally on him, but also not typical. Brees threw 4 interceptions in a game and lost. Brady threw 4 interceptions in a game and lost. Ryan threw 5 interceptions in a game and still pulled out a win. It happens to elite QBs. Why do some people here hold Freeman to a higher standard? He is clearly not elite, but take away the two games with 4 interceptions, and he is right up there with the second tier of QBs. We won a SB with Brad Johnson. Josh Freeman doesn't have BJs maturity, but he is a greater threat with deep passes and his elusiveness. Maturity will come with time and experience. Freeman has the size and ability to be great, if not elite. Great is good enough IMO. After all, we won a SB with a QB who was just good.

[Hayseed]

........will now watch the rest of the playoffs on tv like most of the rest of us. Peyton Manning coughed up the game. The rest of his team played well enough to win. He choked again.

Aaron Rogers is headed for Canton no doubt, but looked very ordinary tonight.

While i agree that Peyton pulled a "Peyton", is it Rodgers' fault that their Defense was gutted for almost 600 yds?

No one seems to cut Freeman slack for that. 

I've never blamed Free for the shortcomings of the defense....  i blame Free for inconsistant play, mental lapses, staring down receivers, inaccuracy, immobility, and my perception that he lacks of fire, passion and moxie!!

Freeman is definitely inconsistent and I don't get the staring down receivers thing. That is something he should be able to do at this point. Ive seen him do it, albeit sparingly. The inaccuracy issue is a concern as well. I am convinced that a lot of the issues came from him playing in a more vertical passing this year and he will improve the longer he has in Sullivan's system. Immobility? Josh is plenty mobile (look at his last TD pass of the season), he just doesn't tuck it and run as often as he should. He is a QB and wants to make plays with his arm. I can't fault him for that and his unwillingness to run at times is not as huge as most Buc fans make it out to be. As far as lacking fire, passion and moxie. I don't agree. We have all seen Josh pick this team up and carry them in the 4th quarter. Almost to the point when he lets things go, he just flat out balls. The Carolina game is a perfect example. The moxie is there. Watching Josh in "miked up" sessions, you can see he gets on his receivers and linemen when they're not making plays. It's hard to see it in body language on TV but it's there as well.

My thing with Freeman right now, is that it is all mental. When he just lets it go, the dude is a stud. He seems to over-think an over-complicate situations. I think that comes from him being uncomfortable. I think it has to do with the lack of consistency in coaching and offensive schemes. That's why I think the 13 season is going to be very telling. He should still have Sullivan and the offensive weapons should only improve around him. If he can't become more consistent and take his game to the next level, then I would be all for looking at other options for 2014 and beyond.

[BucBalla85]

Good post hayseed. I agree with what you said there.

[Boid Fink]

No accuracy.  No vision.

Nuff said.

[1sparkybuc]

No accuracy.  No vision.

Nuff said.

Enough about you. We're discussing NFL QBs here.

[Hate]

After all, we won a SB with a QB who was just good.

The #1 defense that also happened to score 9 tds might have had a lil to do with that.

[captainjimbo]

And having the Raiders playbook didn't hurt.

[jhop88]

........will now watch the rest of the playoffs on tv like most of the rest of us. Peyton Manning coughed up the game. The rest of his team played well enough to win. He choked again.

Aaron Rogers is headed for Canton no doubt, but looked very ordinary tonight.

Maybe Josh Freeman isn't so bad after all.

Dude, you're terrible.

Peyton didn't "cough up" the game. How does a safety give up that pass given the circumstances?

And yea, whether Rodgers was "ordinary" or not, no QB wins a game when their D gives up 600 yards.

And of course you try to spin these 2 losses somehow in favor of Freeman...pathetic.

[jhop88]

........will now watch the rest of the playoffs on tv like most of the rest of us. Peyton Manning coughed up the game. The rest of his team played well enough to win. He choked again.

Aaron Rogers is headed for Canton no doubt, but looked very ordinary tonight.

While i agree that Peyton pulled a "Peyton", is it Rodgers' fault that their Defense was gutted for almost 600 yds?

Is it Freeman's fault that our defense was gutted week after week?

Absolutely not. Who said it was?

We have several on this board who blame Freeman for the losses. They say he should be able to overcome the weakness in our pass defense. Drew Brees lost 9 games with the Saints, and he is much more experienced than Freeman. Their fans aren't calling for a trade. These "fans" refuse to credit him for the wins and blame him for the losses. There's no logic to their reasoning.

Now comparing Freeman to Brees? As if they've had similar careers? There definitely is logic to your reasoning...#Freemanapologist #UpFreemansa*s

[jhop88]

why are there still Freeman arguments?

obviously the pass defense is a huge problem, but you can't go around throwing 4 INTs a game or throw half your passes nowhere near your receiver

both have to improve

+1...and most realize that both the offense and the defense are to blame for the losses. The freepologists and freehaters are the small groups that are too dense to see that.

It's a never-ending argument. Freeman is only going to bring the team as far as it's own weakest link.

Fix the pass defense and we stand a chance with anyone behind center. Being that freeman isn't a seasoned vet like brad was when he won the Superbowl, he cannot manage the offense to wins if the defense always gives up points. Not at this stage of Freeman's game. Not yet anyway.

Just to put it into perspective. The pass defense was so bad, that even a #1 run defense couldn't gain them wins. Crying about a QB is worthless when he posts around 25+ points per game, but the pass defense allows 30+. I know the numbers aren't right, but you get the point.

No they don't.

The fact remains two elite QBs lost today. That suggests to me that football is a team sport. The Bucs' pass defense was respectable in one game. Freeman was erratic and inconsistent, but was also respectable or impressive in several games. The Bucs can win with him. They can't win consistently without a complete overhaul of the CBs. Freeman has issues but his issues can be corrected. He doesn't have to be replaced. Our starting CBs do. We have depth. We don't have starters.

It's definitely a team sport, but look at the SB QBs since the Bucs won it...don't recall an average QB in the bunch.

[1sparkybuc]

Freeman is easily in the conversation with guys like Flacco and Kaepernick and had plenty of games this year that were just as good if not better than them, but both of their teams have elite defenses and great leadership on them. We're lacking that at the moment, but I don't think we're too far away if we can add the right few pieces this summer. We need to find our Patrick Willis/Ray Lewis voice for our defense. Or we atleast need a Richard Sherman trash talker out there.

You are exactly right, but you're never going to convince the people here with a bias against Freeman. The Saints finished with an identical record. Drew Brees threw 4 interceptions in a game. He's a proven veteran on a veteran team, playing with the same playbook with most of the same coaches. All of those things any rational person would consider to be advantages. Oh yeah, and two of their wins were against the Bucs with the worst pass defense in the league. That means the elite Drew Brees won 5 games against the rest of the league. Freeman won 7, and mostly the same schedule.

The Saints need help on their defense. So do the Bucs. The Saints won a SB with Drew Brees. The Bucs can win a SB with Josh Freeman. Tweak him and fix the pass defense, and it could be in Giants' Stadium after next season. Not likely, but possible.

[captainjimbo]

So you're comparing Freeman to Brees.  I'm gonna be rooting for #5 next season but he's nowhere near as good a qb as Brees.