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chace1986

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#30 : January 14, 2013, 11:01:04 AM

Of course they knew they were rebuilding.  That was part of the schtick when they fired Gruden and hired the DB coach to be the HC.   They were going to build through the draft.  Then they trade a 2nd round pick for a TE with bad knees and a worse attitude
And re-signed Luke McCown, signed Byron Leftwich, signed Angelo Crowell, signed Derrick Ward, re-signed Michael Clayton, re-signed Ryan Sims, and re-signed Ronde Barber. All because they were rebuilding.

How do you explain the vet purge right before the '09 FA period? Just because they resigned a few vets and added a few mid-level FAs, doesn't mean that they were not in the business of rebuilding.

We all can agree that the Colts were rebuilding this last offseason, but that didn't prevent them from resigning vets like Reggie Wayne or adding outside talent like Vontae Davis. Even though there was a rebuilding process, Dom and Raw probably looked at Crowell, Ward, Clayton, and Barber as guys who would be on the team for at least a few years. Also, they seemed to have wanted a legit QB battle while bringing their rookie QB along slowly. They had a rebuilding plan in place...it's just completely sucked balls.
I didn't say they weren't rebuilding. I said they were attempting to reload and rebuild in the background.

It's all about perception, I guess. I personally would say that rebuilding was the primary objective, and that they just added some pieces that they felt fit into the mid-longterm rebuild, and at the same time gave them somewhat of a vet presence and could potentially keep them competitive.


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chace1986

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#31 : January 14, 2013, 11:20:57 AM

Biggest mistakes? I swear. If you're going to bash someone, at least get the facts correct!

Dom's biggest mistake(s) were MC80's and Black's contracts. Take your pick.

Raheem wasn't hired by dom. That was done right after rah's interview. Ward and winslow were bad, but not pummer or Bo Jackson bad either. There was some production, even if it wasn't much. Although, k2 did impress on a few occasions he kept getting lazy/sloppy/whatever you want to call it. Freeman has broken bucs records all over the place, McCoy is PB bound, and the verdict is still out on clayborn (but he still looks like he's going to be a good player as well) and Barron (same).

Scoff as you will, fact remains... Allen could not even dream of drafting this good. The dude drafted guys with oversized hearts (rip Gaines) and guys with mental issues. I mean none of his guys could catch that?? Allen did a horrible job, and a lot of you guys should be happier not being on the Jerry jones/Rex Ryan bandwagon, because that isn't good either. Sometimes, it's better to enjoy what you don't have. Dom has proven to be more substance than hype.

One question. At this point, would you rather have Jerry jones instead of dom calling the shots??

No to JJ....be that as it may, since Dom took over as GM, JJ has a playoff appearance and win as a GM...Dom does not.

Jerry's problem is meddling and not giving his coaches the full power and support needed to make the team into a close enough family to have bonds that can take them well into January football. That is why I wouldn't want him. Comparing their two teams drafts since Dom took over, though, they both have had equal successes and equal failures. Jerry and son Stephen have acquired a lot of young talent for that team in Sean Lee, Bruce Carter, Claiborne, Tyron Smith, Dez Bryant, and Demarco Murray. While Jerry's 2009 draft may have been one of the worst in the history of draft classes(had 12 picks and barely any contribution from a single pick, also traded their 1st and 3rd rd picks for Roy Williams, and traded their 2nd to get a 3rd and 4th that were part of the 12 wasted picks), they have drafted at least 1-2 instant contributors(and potentially long term) in the last three drafts, which is on par with Dom.

Once again, wouldn't want Jerry, but their success over the last 4 years as purely a GM is about on the same level.
: January 14, 2013, 04:16:33 PM chace1986


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

Biggs3535

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#32 : January 14, 2013, 11:59:32 AM

Of course they knew they were rebuilding.  That was part of the schtick when they fired Gruden and hired the DB coach to be the HC.   They were going to build through the draft.  Then they trade a 2nd round pick for a TE with bad knees and a worse attitude
And re-signed Luke McCown, signed Byron Leftwich, signed Angelo Crowell, signed Derrick Ward, re-signed Michael Clayton, re-signed Ryan Sims, and re-signed Ronde Barber. All because they were rebuilding.

How do you explain the vet purge right before the '09 FA period.

I would explain that as getting rid of players who no longer could play in the NFL, which is obviously what should have happened.


NotDeadYet

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#33 : January 14, 2013, 01:24:40 PM

Great player, but not sure he would of altered the history of the franchise.

I think at he very least we would've made the playoffs in 2010. That would have made an major alteration in NFL history as the Packers would've sat at home instead of hoisting the Lombardi again.
   Bingo! In spite of the numbers k2 put up, there were many, many opportunities he muffed, including hurting the team's field position with those inane offensive PI's. Gonzalez is a far more consistant receiver, AND the man actually BLOCKS too. No question in my mind he'd have accelerated Freeman's development and been an outstanding role model, despite Raheem. Add to that the point I made originally; Gonzalez has IMO been the Falcon's MVP just about from when he got there. The man is $$$ on 3rd down plays; would've been the same here. His being here instead of Atlanta would've retarded their offense's growth ...
    With all that said, I do recall Gonzalez and his "short list" of teams now that some mentioned it, so Dom would've had to do some smooth talkin' to get him here. Have to wonder if the Bucs ever contacted Gonzalez...

The Franchi5e

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#34 : January 14, 2013, 01:45:27 PM


Dominik's biggest mistakes IMO are Price, Benn, and Myron Lewis when you look at the number of amazing players that could have been had with those picks.

Yup, this is probably it. I thought Price and Benn were gonna be our best picks...smh.....

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#35 : January 14, 2013, 04:01:43 PM

Chace, you make some fair points about JJ's recent drafts, but you skipped past the parts where he ran the team into the ground post Jimmie Johnson, pre-Bill Parcells.  If Dom had that kind of long track record, I'd hope he'd be out of a job.


chace1986

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#36 : January 14, 2013, 04:15:06 PM

Chace, you make some fair points about JJ's recent drafts, but you skipped past the parts where he ran the team into the ground post Jimmie Johnson, pre-Bill Parcells.  If Dom had that kind of long track record, I'd hope he'd be out of a job.

That was the point though. I didn't bring up the JJ/Dom comparison....but if we are going to put them in the same sentence, I think that it makes sense to just look at the time in which they were simultaneously GMs of their teams. I stated twice that I wouldn't want JJ as my GM/all the other BS...not just because of what he has done in the last 4 years...but the last 15-20 years. It definitely wasn't a defense of JJ...just a slight comparison of the last 4 years of their General Management. I edited the last sentence of that previous post to further clarify my intended message.
: January 14, 2013, 04:19:50 PM chace1986


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Dolorous Jason

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#37 : January 14, 2013, 06:25:12 PM

All I know is Gonzalez was interviewed after the game and had eyes red from crying, and he was all over the place during his moment.

Wonder if he will go nuts eventually as a result.  ::)

You would know better than anyone , being the bi-polar train wreck that you are on this message board ...

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

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#38 : January 14, 2013, 07:19:30 PM

Dom's biggest mistakes were in the 2010 draft.
Brian Price should have been Golden Tate.
ABenn should have been Gronkowski.
Myron Lewis should have been Jon Asamoah.

Compared to these mistakes the Gonzalez situation is a minor issue.


Mike Glennon
6\' 7\" 220 pounds.
6\' 6\" 210
6\' 5\" 200
6\' 4\" 190 6\' 3\" 180 6\' 2\" 170 6\' 1\" 160  6\' 0\" 150 How does he compare to your favorite QB?

Hate

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#39 : January 14, 2013, 07:57:23 PM

     ... with every game Tony Gonzalez plays. On Feb 27, 2009 (Tony's birthday!!), Dominik traded a 2nd round and their 2010 5th round pick for Kellen Winslow the junior. On April 23, 2009, the Falcons traded a 2nd round pick in the 2010 draft for.... Tony Gonzalez...
     Imagine the fate of both franchises if Dominik had traded for Gonzalez instead. IMO, he's been the MVP of their offense... more than once...


not trading for Gonzalez is far from Dom's biggest mistake

-------------------------------------------------------
   

 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

NotDeadYet

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#40 : January 14, 2013, 07:58:10 PM

     I would argue Brian Price was like DaQuan Bowers; the potential to be an elite player, but with risks. Injuries are something no GM can predict, so I wouldn't call that a "mistake". And, we needed a NT to get some push up the middle. Which we still lack today...

    As for Gronkowski in 2010, he had an injury history, plus Dom already had big $$$ tied up in that junior Winslow kid at TE from 2009. The fact we didn't go for Gronkowski in 2010 just ADDS to my arguement we should NOT have signed junior.

    As for Myron Lewis; an obvious mistake, but I don't think that hurt us near as bad as getting junior in 2009. While junior had productive numbers, he COST us some W's with critical mistakes.

   

dbucfan

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#41 : January 14, 2013, 08:51:37 PM

Of course they knew they were rebuilding.  That was part of the schtick when they fired Gruden and hired the DB coach to be the HC.   They were going to build through the draft.  Then they trade a 2nd round pick for a TE with bad knees and a worse attitude
And re-signed Luke McCown, signed Byron Leftwich, signed Angelo Crowell, signed Derrick Ward, re-signed Michael Clayton, re-signed Ryan Sims, and re-signed Ronde Barber. All because they were rebuilding.

How do you explain the vet purge right before the '09 FA period.

I would explain that as getting rid of players who no longer could play in the NFL, which is obviously what should have happened.
That begs the question as to why McCown and Leftwich, the run to the airport to stop Clayton from leaving town.  If one is getting rid of players that no longer could play in the NFL there were a lot of folks kept who shouldn't have been. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

Dolorous Jason

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#42 : January 15, 2013, 07:23:46 AM

     I would argue Brian Price was like DaQuan Bowers; the potential to be an elite player, but with risks. Injuries are something no GM can predict, so I wouldn't call that a "mistake".

   

No , gimpy cheeseburger was a mistake anyway you slice it. A lot of good players were still on the board when we selected that fat turd.

Gibson and Miller played better last season than Price ever had , even when he was healthy enough to not be rolling aound on the turf like a beached whale after every play. We had the 30th ranked run defense when he was our starting nose tackle in 2011.
: January 15, 2013, 07:28:09 AM Fire Mark Dummynik

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Biggs3535

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#43 : January 15, 2013, 08:53:11 AM

Of course they knew they were rebuilding.  That was part of the schtick when they fired Gruden and hired the DB coach to be the HC.   They were going to build through the draft.  Then they trade a 2nd round pick for a TE with bad knees and a worse attitude
And re-signed Luke McCown, signed Byron Leftwich, signed Angelo Crowell, signed Derrick Ward, re-signed Michael Clayton, re-signed Ryan Sims, and re-signed Ronde Barber. All because they were rebuilding.

How do you explain the vet purge right before the '09 FA period.

I would explain that as getting rid of players who no longer could play in the NFL, which is obviously what should have happened.
That begs the question as to why McCown and Leftwich, the run to the airport to stop Clayton from leaving town.  If one is getting rid of players that no longer could play in the NFL there were a lot of folks kept who shouldn't have been.

You'll get no argument w/me regarding Clayton.  That was the first of some awful re-signings of Buccaneer players from Dominik.  But since McCown and Leftwich are still in the league, they have a leg up on all of the vets who were cut almost four years ago.

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