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spartan

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« #150 : January 31, 2013, 07:36:36 PM »

Yes.  Thin air. Especially considering the only quote you were able to scrounge up in that google search has Mises saying fascism is a "fatal error" , and dosesn't work. Lol. The only thing borderline here is your level above mental retardation

Delirious, I assume you are unaware that von Mises served in the Austrian government as a member of the Christian Social Party, which modeled it's platform after Mussolini's National Fascist Party, up until 1934. Is that "thin air" too?

Anybody care?

spartan

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« #151 : January 31, 2013, 07:45:53 PM »

OK CBW here is the problem, you're arguing what the definition of is is. In the real world nobody really cares what the exact sub-definition of the splintered categorization of the fourth paradigm says in third edition of Economic Principles for Massachusets Professors, they care how it works and does not work in life. Market economy = I can take my product to a customer and sell it for something of equal or greater value. That is a transaction between us and within the boundaries of the rule of law. "Collective Market" = I get a migraine figuring out what I can and cannot do and have to jump through so many hoops, pay so many "fees", and fill out so much paperwork that I can't be arsed any more and give up.

No. I am arguing what the actual definition of the word is. If you are making the argument that collectivism is the opposite of a market economy, one would think that the definition of each would be pertinent to the discussion. You don't want to argue about the definition because you don't want to accept the definition. You want to apply the rules of a market economy only to fit what you think a market economy is, which is a free market, rather than what it actually is, which is an economic system relying on supply and demand rather than central planning.

By your definition, barely any country in the world has a market economy, because barely any country in the world has a free market economy.

Because when JG said 'market economy' everybody, except you obviously, understood him to be referencing some form of 'free market economy.' You might be 100% correct on your 'definitions' according some rare edition of someones book on economics, but we are not discussing the finer points of Shakespeare here.

Dolorous Jason

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« #152 : January 31, 2013, 08:28:57 PM »

Yes.  Thin air. Especially considering the only quote you were able to scrounge up in that google search has Mises saying fascism is a "fatal error" , and dosesn't work. Lol. The only thing borderline here is your level above mental retardation

Delirious, I assume you are unaware that von Mises served in the Austrian government as a member of the Christian Social Party, which modeled it's platform after Mussolini's National Fascist Party, up until 1934. Is that "thin air" too?

Anybody care?

No one . Mises's political beliefs are well documented , so an old obscure party affiliation is irrelevant. CBW is spinning and deflecting now that I've caught him in another outright lie.

 CBW cherry-picked his Mises quote ( out of context ) in an attempt to save face and tie Mises , if only in some small way , to an advocacy of fascism. The article containing the quote , however , is clearly condemning fascism during a time when fascism was gaining popularity as an alternative to communism .

Here's some more context :
"Many people approve of the methods of Fascism, even though its economic program is altogether antiliberal and its policy completely interventionist, because it is far from practicing the senseless and unrestrained destructionism that has stamped the Communists as the archenemies of civilization. Still others, in full knowledge of the evil that Fascist economic policy brings with it, view Fascism, in comparison with Bolshevism and Sovietism, as at least the lesser evil. For the majority of its public and secret supporters and admirers, however, its appeal consists precisely in the violence of its methods."

Not only did he call it a "fatal error" in this article , he called it  "EVIL" . That doesn't sound very "borderline" to me. Doesn't sound like a fan OR a supporter.

Here it is in it's entirety , should anyone care to read it , and view CBW's dishonesty for themselves :
http://mises.org/liberal/ch1sec10.asp




What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

CBWx2

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« #153 : January 31, 2013, 08:37:55 PM »

Yes.  Thin air. Especially considering the only quote you were able to scrounge up in that google search has Mises saying fascism is a "fatal error" , and dosesn't work. Lol. The only thing borderline here is your level above mental retardation

Delirious, I assume you are unaware that von Mises served in the Austrian government as a member of the Christian Social Party, which modeled it's platform after Mussolini's National Fascist Party, up until 1934. Is that "thin air" too?

Anybody care?

Ah, I see. So the fact that he spent years as a member of a fascist party, serving in a fascist regime, under a fascist dictator is of no consequence to him being a borderline fascist, yet Anna Goldman supporting the Bolsheviks for a few months and then spending the rest of her time in Russia organizing demonstrations against them and having to leave Russia for fear of retribution makes her a borderline Bolshevik. Gotcha.


Kodiak

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« #154 : January 31, 2013, 08:44:52 PM »

There are many issues to why Social Security is going belly up, but one of the main reasons is not the fault of anyone other than the fact that there are more people and more people living longer. We have more people on Soc Sec now than at any time in the past. They paid into until they were supposed to retire. Much of that money was supposed to last so long but with people living even longer these days...they are now taking more money from the pot than was originally intended. This is why they keep trying to raise the retirement age. Again...there are many more issues but I believe this is a big one.

Whoa...shiver me ****in timbers!


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« #155 : January 31, 2013, 08:52:38 PM »

Yea, and it is pyramid with too many at the top and not enough at that bottom, and the government has "borrowed" from the fund, and the intent was expanded, and there is a limit on how much will be charged per year, and and and and... obviously it is Von Mises fault due to his working for a fascist government rather than anarchist Goldman - if you think CBW has it nailed.  LMAO

And it doesn't help anything in the program if a President running for reelection decides to suspend the tax giving folks extra cash to show them all is well.  Sucked for those folks when they found out the temporary covered the reelection,but not to the coronation

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

CBWx2

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« #156 : January 31, 2013, 08:53:36 PM »

OK CBW here is the problem, you're arguing what the definition of is is. In the real world nobody really cares what the exact sub-definition of the splintered categorization of the fourth paradigm says in third edition of Economic Principles for Massachusets Professors, they care how it works and does not work in life. Market economy = I can take my product to a customer and sell it for something of equal or greater value. That is a transaction between us and within the boundaries of the rule of law. "Collective Market" = I get a migraine figuring out what I can and cannot do and have to jump through so many hoops, pay so many "fees", and fill out so much paperwork that I can't be arsed any more and give up.

No. I am arguing what the actual definition of the word is. If you are making the argument that collectivism is the opposite of a market economy, one would think that the definition of each would be pertinent to the discussion. You don't want to argue about the definition because you don't want to accept the definition. You want to apply the rules of a market economy only to fit what you think a market economy is, which is a free market, rather than what it actually is, which is an economic system relying on supply and demand rather than central planning.

By your definition, barely any country in the world has a market economy, because barely any country in the world has a free market economy.

Because when JG said 'market economy' everybody, except you obviously, understood him to be referencing some form of 'free market economy.' You might be 100% correct on your 'definitions' according some rare edition of someones book on economics, but we are not discussing the finer points of Shakespeare here.

Well then you and JG? would be wrong in that regard as well, because none of the societies he listed had free market economies. Market economies? Yes. Free market economies? No.


spartan

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« #157 : January 31, 2013, 10:24:46 PM »

Yes.  Thin air. Especially considering the only quote you were able to scrounge up in that google search has Mises saying fascism is a "fatal error" , and dosesn't work. Lol. The only thing borderline here is your level above mental retardation

Delirious, I assume you are unaware that von Mises served in the Austrian government as a member of the Christian Social Party, which modeled it's platform after Mussolini's National Fascist Party, up until 1934. Is that "thin air" too?

Anybody care?

Ah, I see. So the fact that he spent years as a member of a fascist party, serving in a fascist regime, under a fascist dictator is of no consequence to him being a borderline fascist, yet Anna Goldman supporting the Bolsheviks for a few months and then spending the rest of her time in Russia organizing demonstrations against them and having to leave Russia for fear of retribution makes her a borderline Bolshevik. Gotcha.

You brought Von Mises up. Nobody else knows or even cares at this juncture who he or she is. So the fact that this Von Mises person served in the Austrain Govt, was a facist or was not a facist is neither here nor there.

spartan

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« #158 : January 31, 2013, 10:26:54 PM »


Well then you and JG? would be wrong in that regard as well, because none of the societies he listed had free market economies. Market economies? Yes. Free market economies? No.

Then educate us. Don't go on some anally retentive diatribe that loses everybody after about 3 seconds.

Dolorous Jason

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« #159 : February 01, 2013, 08:02:40 AM »



You brought Von Mises up. Nobody else knows or even cares at this juncture who he or she is. So the fact that this Von Mises person served in the Austrain Govt, was a facist or was not a facist is neither here nor there.

Actually it IS here nor there , because it's another shining example of what a dishonest tool CBW is. He will go to any lengths to spin an argument.

"In order to pursue thier unwavering battle against inflation ,Mises and Rosenberg sought political allies . and managed to secure the reluctant support of the Christian Social Party , in particular of it's leader Father Ignaz Seipal. "
http://books.google.com/books?id=xFsaVHBXlNkC&pg=PA76&lpg=PA76&dq=mises+christian+social+party+reluctant+support&source=bl&ots=4AoAZbLxnV&sig=7Ggc8G3P4JOLYF5WwCFkbNaDCbs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NrgLUa-zIY249gSaxIE4&ved=0CEoQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=mises%20christian%20social%20party%20reluctant%20support&f=false


“Why was Austria’s eminent free-market liberal advising a militant interventionist? In “The Cultural Background of Ludwig von Mises” (PDF), Erik Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn offers this explanation:
 
Given the opposition Mises encountered at the university, he looked for steady employment in the Handelskammer, the semi-official Chamber of Commerce. After 1920, the Austrian government was mostly in the hands of the Christian Social Party, a Clerical-Conservative party, which eventually fathered the dictatorship of Dollfuss and his Patriotic Front. This party had to fight the international socialists, and, later, the National Socialists. Mises, as an agnostic and a genuine Liberal, had no innate enthusiasm for the Christian Socials, but, judging Austria’s precarious situation dispassionately, knew that a decent, responsible man had to collaborate with that government.”
http://mises.org/pdf/asc/essays/kuehneltLeddihn.pdf


Mises a "borderline fascist" ? Thin air , black hole . Thin air.
« : February 01, 2013, 08:04:23 AM Fire Mark Dummynik »

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

CBWx2

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« #160 : February 03, 2013, 01:42:41 AM »

Yes.  Thin air. Especially considering the only quote you were able to scrounge up in that google search has Mises saying fascism is a "fatal error" , and dosesn't work. Lol. The only thing borderline here is your level above mental retardation

Delirious, I assume you are unaware that von Mises served in the Austrian government as a member of the Christian Social Party, which modeled it's platform after Mussolini's National Fascist Party, up until 1934. Is that "thin air" too?

Anybody care?

Ah, I see. So the fact that he spent years as a member of a fascist party, serving in a fascist regime, under a fascist dictator is of no consequence to him being a borderline fascist, yet Anna Goldman supporting the Bolsheviks for a few months and then spending the rest of her time in Russia organizing demonstrations against them and having to leave Russia for fear of retribution makes her a borderline Bolshevik. Gotcha.

You brought Von Mises up. Nobody else knows or even cares at this juncture who he or she is. So the fact that this Von Mises person served in the Austrain Govt, was a facist or was not a facist is neither here nor there.

I didn't bring von Mises up. JG? did, and I quoted Emma Goldman in response to it.


CBWx2

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« #161 : February 03, 2013, 01:56:12 AM »



You brought Von Mises up. Nobody else knows or even cares at this juncture who he or she is. So the fact that this Von Mises person served in the Austrain Govt, was a facist or was not a facist is neither here nor there.

Actually it IS here nor there , because it's another shining example of what a dishonest tool CBW is. He will go to any lengths to spin an argument.

"In order to pursue thier unwavering battle against inflation ,Mises and Rosenberg sought political allies . and managed to secure the reluctant support of the Christian Social Party , in particular of it's leader Father Ignaz Seipal. "
http://books.google.com/books?id=xFsaVHBXlNkC&pg=PA76&lpg=PA76&dq=mises+christian+social+party+reluctant+support&source=bl&ots=4AoAZbLxnV&sig=7Ggc8G3P4JOLYF5WwCFkbNaDCbs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NrgLUa-zIY249gSaxIE4&ved=0CEoQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=mises%20christian%20social%20party%20reluctant%20support&f=false


“Why was Austria’s eminent free-market liberal advising a militant interventionist? In “The Cultural Background of Ludwig von Mises” (PDF), Erik Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn offers this explanation:
 
Given the opposition Mises encountered at the university, he looked for steady employment in the Handelskammer, the semi-official Chamber of Commerce. After 1920, the Austrian government was mostly in the hands of the Christian Social Party, a Clerical-Conservative party, which eventually fathered the dictatorship of Dollfuss and his Patriotic Front. This party had to fight the international socialists, and, later, the National Socialists. Mises, as an agnostic and a genuine Liberal, had no innate enthusiasm for the Christian Socials, but, judging Austria’s precarious situation dispassionately, knew that a decent, responsible man had to collaborate with that government.”
http://mises.org/pdf/asc/essays/kuehneltLeddihn.pdf


Mises a "borderline fascist" ? Thin air , black hole . Thin air.

Ah yes. No more unbiased a source than the "Ludwig von Mises Institute", LMAO! I guess if they say it's so that von Mises wasn't a fascist even though he was, then he wasn't. Next I suppose you'll come up with another "unbaised" article about how F.A. Hayek wasn't a supporter of the Pinochet regime in Chile.


Dolorous Jason

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« #162 : February 03, 2013, 09:38:22 AM »

Extremists tend to view the world through a black and white lens.



What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

spartan

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« #163 : February 03, 2013, 02:59:07 PM »


I didn't bring von Mises up. JG? did, and I quoted Emma Goldman in response to it.

You're right. I missed that. I apologize. I could try to justify it but I won't bother because at the end of the day I was still wrong.

CBWx2

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« #164 : February 04, 2013, 09:57:25 AM »

Extremists tend to view the world through a black and white lens.



U Mad,



Generalissimo?

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