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Buc on the Move

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« #60 : January 15, 2013, 06:07:40 PM »

.....and I thought I was getting into this thread to read about Sully staying here...on to the next thread that hopefully won't be flogging the Freeman horse.....

Dolorous Jason

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« #61 : January 15, 2013, 07:03:04 PM »

.....and I thought I was getting into this thread to read about Sully staying here...on to the next thread that hopefully won't be flogging the Freeman horse.....

Sorry , I've already visited the next thread and it is piling on Freeman also...

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

Buc on the Move

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« #62 : January 15, 2013, 07:17:50 PM »

.....and I thought I was getting into this thread to read about Sully staying here...on to the next thread that hopefully won't be flogging the Freeman horse.....

Sorry , I've already visited the next thread and it is piling on Freeman also...
Unfortunately, they pretty much all do.  And I keep coming. . .and reading. . .
Regardless, I keep checking in, and will.  Hell, I hope Josh puts up or gets out, just so we can move on our conversations, woe be to the new QB.

Time to cook dinner.

Al Bundy

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« #63 : January 15, 2013, 07:38:42 PM »

I see people want Freeman replaced.. I always ask "Names, give me names on who to replace him with." I don't accept Alex Smith as a name, talk about a noodle arm... keep Matt Flynn to yourself, too.


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« #64 : January 15, 2013, 08:12:02 PM »

Awesome.....one less excuse for the Freepologists.

I would not mind a new OC, if this would make this team win a few more games, for instance by handing the play books of our opponents next season to our DC. I could live with those kind of 'excuses'.
But if your goal is just to prove that Freeman is not good enough to win with a average/bad team, keep trolling.
I want my TEAM to win a few PO games sooner or later. I do not know how a worse Freeman helps here, even if we just raise his trade value by surrounding him by a good team.

Trolling....by sharing my opinion?

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« #65 : January 15, 2013, 08:26:13 PM »

There is a god. And he likes the Bucs.

I thought God only liked the Ravens

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The Anti-Java

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« #66 : January 15, 2013, 08:36:57 PM »

Good that he is sticking around, good for Freeman I think.  But they better get plan B ready, because he is probably out of here after the 2013 season. If he is getting interest now, someone will hire him next year I think.

Unless Schiano does a crash and burn, Raheem style.  Then maybe they give Sully the HC gig.


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Buc on the Move

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« #67 : January 15, 2013, 10:21:51 PM »

There is a god. And he likes the Bucs.

I thought God only liked the Ravens
In church they taught us that God was a Cowboys fan, but in my adult life, I always thought God played for the Patriots.

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« #68 : January 15, 2013, 10:32:18 PM »


 " Trolling....by sharing my opinion? "

You don't care for your own medicine, sir?

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

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« #69 : January 15, 2013, 10:58:46 PM »

2. The people attacking freeman apparently don't understand the team concept, or just don't get the idea that there were parts of the team that faired much, much worse than free. Is it wrong of me to want posters to mention the CB argument every time they open there free-hating mouth?

When will people go after the failures on this team?? Freeman is no failure, but those DB's sure are. Yeah, they get talked about, but most of the resentment goes towards freeman, and that isn't right.

Say it with me now everyone...... "the DB core is BAD! ...No QB with be able to win often with the defense that is this BAD on the PASS!"

(There. Now hopefully they remember.) ;)

I have yet to see a poster here defending the play of our DBs. Actually, i feel pretty safe in saying as a whole, our secondary sucked. Difference is, we all know that and acknowledge that a complete overhaul is imminent. My question to you is if we aren't going to settle for mediocre at that position, why should be settle for mediocre at the most important position on the team?

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« #70 : January 15, 2013, 11:06:39 PM »

Awesome.....one less excuse for the Freepologists.

Exactly what I thought when I saw this thread!!!

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« #71 : January 15, 2013, 11:13:10 PM »

this could quite possibly be the most important (non) move of the offseason. those who take a negative POV on freeman aren't giving enough credence to the fact that it was his 3rd offensive system in 4 years, and he still put up the numbers he did. yeah there were a lot of picks and bad throws, and i saw them just like all of you, but it's a known fact that sullivan's offense is complex and requires the QB and his receivers to be thinking the EXACT same thing. quite obviously, freeman and his receivers weren't. but i'm fairly confident that another offseason of practice and finally some offensive continuity will fix a lot of those bad decisions. 

i really think the 1-5 finish is still impairing a lot of people's view of the big picture. which is even with that **CENSORED**ty slide to finish the season freeman put up single-season franchise records for yards (4,065), TD's (27), is now the franchise leader in career TD's (78), AND the team was the highest scoring group in team history (389 points). i guess the superb level of QB play this franchise has enjoyed for the last 37 years has spoiled everyone. dude is only 24 and is re-writing the record books, but if he's not "elite" after 4 years, not perfect on every throw, well then he's a donkey.


The 1-3 start and the 1-5 finish should have given some insight on what an inconsistent player the QB is. We keep hearing about how complex the system is, and how our 4th year QB can't quite get a full grip on it....well if that's the case then the coaching staff should have dumbed it down like the staffs of the 49ers, Seahawks, Colts, and 'Skins have with their young QBs. Freeman being in the first year of an offensive system has little to do with his terrible mechanics and inaccuracy.

The franchise records are irrelevant. As you stated sarcastically about the "superb" play from previous QBs in this franchise....that shows that the franchise history when it comes to offense is pitiful. So the fact that franchise passing records are being broken in a league that currently revolves around the passing game, it really isn't that big of a deal. He is now 25 and he is re-writing records that mean zilch.

i can't believe these clowns keep bringing up the "franchise records" nonsense. I was thinking about this last week...is their a franchise in football w/absolutely ZERO franchise, elite, etc QBs in their history? Of the top of my head, the only 3 I could think of one are Carolina, Detroit and the Bucs. People need to stop throwing the "franchise record" garbage around as if it actually means something w/this franchise.

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« #72 : January 15, 2013, 11:24:46 PM »

I can understand this argument and there are certainly incompletions that are the result of not being on the same page. BTW, that's Gilbride. How can we be so sure that Sullivan is doing everything 100% by the Gilbride book?

I'm more speaking of the throws where he is throwing to a WR that is already in their specific area and Freeman just flat out misses them. There were plenty of times where Freeman just flat out overthrew his WRs. I think to blame most of Freeman's incompletions on the system as opposed to the player...well...I disagree.

i'm sure that he hasn't copped gilbride's system 100%, but being privy to the giants offense, and kevin gilbride's in particular for nearly 4+ years  i would have to assume that he's incorporated a fair bit of that offensive philosophy into his own....which is why i hope they sign david carr this offseason, to help #5 with all the little details

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/tampa-bay-buccaneers-oc-mike-sullivan-found-breaking-ny-giants-hard-article-1.1160591
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That’s why, after eight years as Coughlin’s assistant on the Giants — the last two as Eli Manning’s quarterbacks coach — the 45-year-old Sullivan decided to take the challenge of running his own offense with the Bucs.
And yes, when the Giants see Sullivan’s team in action at the Meadowlands on Sunday the scheme should look awfully familiar. When Giants receiver Hakeem Nicks saw it on film this week he said, “It’s our offense.”
And he’s right, Sullivan said. From the plays to the terminology to the philosophy, a lot of it is the same.
“There’ll be some carryover,” Sullivan said. “But we try to put our own stamp on things. There’s always a few things where as assistant coach you think, ‘Well I’d like to change this component or try this new idea.’ Everywhere you go as coach you’re going to pull things from certain places and mold it into your own philosophy. We try to do some things that are unique to us.”

even during the 1-3 start the only really bad game he had was vs. dallas, then he didn't have another until the back-to-back stinkshows vs. NO and STL. take away the 8 picks thrown in those two games and he put up a 27/9 season. lots of people want to focus on the negatives, well he's not going to ever have pinpoint accuracy, and he's now shown he can bounce back from a terrible season and put up some decent numbers. has everyone forgotten that they were in playoff contention in part because of freeman's play? yeah they finished 1-5, but only 2 of those 5 losses you can argue were on #5, the rest of them IMO are on the secondary and the o-line depth starting to show why its depth and not starting. they should have beat atlanta. manning had to come back to beat them in his own house, and the greatness that is nick foles goes off for 400+ ...but somehow its on freeman. if those 3 games were W's instead of L's they would have been in contention for the last playoff spot...all this after a 4-12 season

He may not have been "bad" in any of those games since the Dallas game until the NO game, but he sure as he*l wasn't "good" in all those games either. Yes, starting w/the KC game and ending w/the SD game, Freeman was really good. But if you look at the other 5 games between that Dallas game and the 2nd Saints game, Freeman wasn't "good" in any of them...IE, he was inconsistent this season, go figure. As for the "take away the 2 bad games" notion, take away the 5 games in a row when he was great, and he goes for 12 TDs and 16 INTs...that's awful...and they went 3-8 in those games.

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« #73 : January 15, 2013, 11:25:17 PM »

this could quite possibly be the most important (non) move of the offseason. those who take a negative POV on freeman aren't giving enough credence to the fact that it was his 3rd offensive system in 4 years, and he still put up the numbers he did. yeah there were a lot of picks and bad throws, and i saw them just like all of you, but it's a known fact that sullivan's offense is complex and requires the QB and his receivers to be thinking the EXACT same thing. quite obviously, freeman and his receivers weren't. but i'm fairly confident that another offseason of practice and finally some offensive continuity will fix a lot of those bad decisions. 

i really think the 1-5 finish is still impairing a lot of people's view of the big picture. which is even with that **CENSORED**ty slide to finish the season freeman put up single-season franchise records for yards (4,065), TD's (27), is now the franchise leader in career TD's (78), AND the team was the highest scoring group in team history (389 points). i guess the superb level of QB play this franchise has enjoyed for the last 37 years has spoiled everyone. dude is only 24 and is re-writing the record books, but if he's not "elite" after 4 years, not perfect on every throw, well then he's a donkey.


The 1-3 start and the 1-5 finish should have given some insight on what an inconsistent player the QB is. We keep hearing about how complex the system is, and how our 4th year QB can't quite get a full grip on it....well if that's the case then the coaching staff should have dumbed it down like the staffs of the 49ers, Seahawks, Colts, and 'Skins have with their young QBs. Freeman being in the first year of an offensive system has little to do with his terrible mechanics and inaccuracy.

The franchise records are irrelevant. As you stated sarcastically about the "superb" play from previous QBs in this franchise....that shows that the franchise history when it comes to offense is pitiful. So the fact that franchise passing records are being broken in a league that currently revolves around the passing game, it really isn't that big of a deal. He is now 25 and he is re-writing records that mean zilch.

i can't believe these clowns keep bringing up the "franchise records" nonsense. I was thinking about this last week...is their a franchise in football w/absolutely ZERO franchise, elite, etc QBs in their history? Of the top of my head, the only 3 I could think of one are Carolina, Detroit and the Bucs. People need to stop throwing the "franchise record" garbage around as if it actually means something w/this franchise.


Well not elite for more than one season, but Carolina had a great season from Steve Beurlein in 1999. Matt Stafford also had his elite year last year. Scott Mitchell had a good year in the 90s too for the Lions.

If Freeman broke franchise records on those teams, you're talking about at least 37 TDs, which probably gets you into the playoffs.

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« #74 : January 15, 2013, 11:26:32 PM »

It blows my mind how people down play this so much. It's a system that 2 time Superbowl winning MVP Eli Manning said it took him numerous years to understand. Freehaters talk about how he can't get the playbook. That's not what Eli, Sully or Freeman is talking about. They all have the playbook memorized. The issue was, and if you really listened you heard it, that a pass play, the routes run, the adjustments can look different every time the play is run and requires different adjustments. So it's not that Freeman needs more time to memorize who is running the slant route and who is running the out. More time is needed for the Freeman, WR's, TE to consistently  make the same adjustments in half a second and for Freeman to be able to let it go before the WR is out of the break knowing the WR is going to be exactly where he should be.

We've seen Freeman throw a lot of picks in the league. Antonio Bryant was someone known for saying screw it I'm doing my own thing, K2 was a sloppy route runner and would drift on plays that required very accurate routes.

We started off slow, we figured it out and took off to a 6-4 mark, then we slowed back down. Anyone think why this happened? Freeman needed a few weeks to learn the system, he did and the offense exploded. The NFL adjusted to our offense and we dove back into the basement because the depth of the knowledge required to be able to adjust to the adjustments on the fly isn't there yet. So say what you want, Sully staying is exactly what Freeman and the Bucs needed to figure out what he is going to be.

If he does the same thing this year, you'll hear few complaints from rational posters on this board, so basically i'll stop saying we need to be patient.

thank you! finally someone who gets it. once they figured the basics out they took off and LED THE NFL in offense. i think the bolded part is a very interesting point. once the rest of the league figured it out they didn't have enough experience to adjust. they could very well have been trying to install new plays during the 1-5 slide to combat the adjustments made by their opponents and simply didn't have enough time to really master them. we don't know for sure

Yet the league didn't adjust to the offenses led by RG3 and Russell Wilson among others...interesting.
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