Welcome, Guest
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Is Xavier Rhodes really a good fit as a Bucanneer? « previous next »
Page: 1 2 3 4

BucNY

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 7901
Offline
#30 : January 16, 2013, 08:00:32 AM

I don't get how watching a guy do track and field in shorts and a t-shirt tells his "real speed".

The combine is fun, but it has nothing to do with game speed. Gotta watch game film to gauge that.

The combine is largely for the fans. It doesn't matter how much you can bench press or how fast you are in the 40. What matters is how the game tape looks. Do you have sufficient speed/strength for your position based on how you play? Can you separate on a crossing route? Can you engage, extend and shed an offensive lineman. Do you wrap up and drive when you tackle? Do you have the agility to adjust to a 10 yard curl and a stop and go route.

Those are the things that matter and unfortunately many if not all of them cannot be really tested at the combine. I'm sure you'll agree Jdub, beware the prospect who shoots up the charts after a monster combine workout. There usually is a reason he's under the radar before, assuming he isn't a small school prospect.

\\\\\\\"This forum needs a poster like BucNY now more than ever\\\\\\\"
      - Everyone

JDouble

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 29156
Offline
#31 : January 16, 2013, 08:07:06 AM

Agree entirely. I try to gather information and form all my opinions before the combine, because in my opinion the combine is what throws the draft boards out of whack and results in many bad picks. People can't help themselves. Even GMs and HCs fall in love with amazing athletic performances.....but the game tape tells you everything you need to know.

When they redo the entire combine to be more realistic,  like run realistic drills and do it in full pads.....then I'll factor it in. Until then it is just part of the predraft spectacle to entertain fans in the offseason.
: January 16, 2013, 08:09:26 AM JDouble


Dolorous Jason

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 17740
Online
#32 : January 16, 2013, 08:18:35 AM

but the game tape tells you everything you need to know.


Not really.  These things do matter . You shouldn't make your entire decision on them , but it should be a factor in them. If nothing else they confirm a player's athleticism as compared to other prospects. If a guy has no tape covering a player as fast and athletic as Julio Jones , how do you know he can? You don't , but confirming he has enough speed , agility , and jumping ability to at least match up physically helps you to feel more secure in that final decision. To not even factor this stuff in would just be ignorant.

There's a reason every coach and scout in the entire league is there that week , and it's not because Indianapolis is such a cool place.

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

dexmonkey

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 3326
Offline
#33 : January 16, 2013, 08:26:43 AM

coaches already can see rhodes has football speed and coverage ability, they still want to confirm what they see on tape. thats what the combine is for. i watch rhodes all year long and i still want to see how well he can flip his hips and run because he crossed himself up a few times this year. he didnt look quite as fluid as he did two years ago. id also like to know how fast he really is. these factors are more to determine where he should be taken rather than if you want him. if you think you need to move up or stand pat for a guy or if you can get a guy later on.

BucsnNoles

*****
Pro Bowler

Posts : 1222
Offline
#34 : January 16, 2013, 09:07:17 AM

Here are the stats by themselves for the three top prospects.

Xavier-  112 solo tackles, 2 sacks, 8 ints, 0 tds, 31 pass deflects, and 1 forced fumble. (In three seasons in the Acc)
Banks-  139 solo tackles, 4 sacks, 15 ints, 3 tds, 41 pass deflects, and 5 forced fumbles. (In four seasons in the SEC)
Milliner- 89 solo tackles, 1 sack, 6 ints, 1 td, 41 pass deflects, and 2 forced fumbles (in three seasons in the SEC)

Now, I'm not strictly a stat guy, but one of these guys numbers are obviously much better than the others. However, going by statistical breakdown, each have their own talents they bring.

Banks has the advantage of playing a season longer. He was also injured, so that obviously cuts into his advantage a tad. Banks seemingly takes advantage of opportunities, not unlike our own barber. Xavier has only three seasons to Banks four, but he could play one more season, and he still, statistically speaking, wouldn't have more interceptions than Banks. Milliner and Banks are very similar in coverage apparently, as they both do indeed have the same number of pass deflects, however milliner had less time than banks.

There is no way around it really. Banks is the superior corner if it weren't for the injury question mark IMO. However, all of them would benifet the bucs, so it doesn't matter. We should all be happy if we draft any one of them.

lol really, comparing a defensive back with plain stats like that?

at least bring in the number of times they were targeted, the number of times passes were completed on them, the passer rating against them if you were going to talk about defensive back stats
Exactly.  Rhodes was not targeted much at all this season.

Biggs3535

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 31639
Offline
#35 : January 16, 2013, 12:49:22 PM

I don't get how watching a guy do track and field in shorts and a t-shirt tells his "real speed".

The combine is fun, but it has nothing to do with game speed. Gotta watch game film to gauge that.

The combine is largely for the fans. It doesn't matter how much you can bench press or how fast you are in the 40. What matters is how the game tape looks. Do you have sufficient speed/strength for your position based on how you play? Can you separate on a crossing route? Can you engage, extend and shed an offensive lineman. Do you wrap up and drive when you tackle? Do you have the agility to adjust to a 10 yard curl and a stop and go route.

Those are the things that matter and unfortunately many if not all of them cannot be really tested at the combine. I'm sure you'll agree Jdub, beware the prospect who shoots up the charts after a monster combine workout. There usually is a reason he's under the radar before, assuming he isn't a small school prospect.

When you are talking about first round picks, the combine results matter very much for skill players.


The Anti-Java

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 23487
Offline
#36 : January 16, 2013, 09:52:33 PM

I don't get how watching a guy do track and field in shorts and a t-shirt tells his "real speed".

The combine is fun, but it has nothing to do with game speed. Gotta watch game film to gauge that.

The combine is largely for the fans. It doesn't matter how much you can bench press or how fast you are in the 40. What matters is how the game tape looks. Do you have sufficient speed/strength for your position based on how you play? Can you separate on a crossing route? Can you engage, extend and shed an offensive lineman. Do you wrap up and drive when you tackle? Do you have the agility to adjust to a 10 yard curl and a stop and go route.

Those are the things that matter and unfortunately many if not all of them cannot be really tested at the combine. I'm sure you'll agree Jdub, beware the prospect who shoots up the charts after a monster combine workout. There usually is a reason he's under the radar before, assuming he isn't a small school prospect.

When you are talking about first round picks, the combine results matter very much for skill players.






You can watch all the tape you want, but its still good to get up close and personal with the players.  See how they carry themselves.  If your getting ready to invest millions in a guy, it might be a good idea to chat him up a bit.



JDouble

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 29156
Offline
#37 : January 16, 2013, 11:25:37 PM

Most important part of the combine are the interviews.


The Anti-Java

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 23487
Offline
#38 : January 16, 2013, 11:26:39 PM

Most important part of the combine are the interviews.



Agree



Dolorous Jason

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 17740
Online
#39 : January 17, 2013, 07:16:47 AM

The most important part of the combine is laughing at dumb asses like Moron Claiborne's Wonderlic score.

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

BucNY

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 7901
Offline
#40 : January 17, 2013, 11:41:56 AM

I don't get how watching a guy do track and field in shorts and a t-shirt tells his "real speed".

The combine is fun, but it has nothing to do with game speed. Gotta watch game film to gauge that.

The combine is largely for the fans. It doesn't matter how much you can bench press or how fast you are in the 40. What matters is how the game tape looks. Do you have sufficient speed/strength for your position based on how you play? Can you separate on a crossing route? Can you engage, extend and shed an offensive lineman. Do you wrap up and drive when you tackle? Do you have the agility to adjust to a 10 yard curl and a stop and go route.

Those are the things that matter and unfortunately many if not all of them cannot be really tested at the combine. I'm sure you'll agree Jdub, beware the prospect who shoots up the charts after a monster combine workout. There usually is a reason he's under the radar before, assuming he isn't a small school prospect.

When you are talking about first round picks, the combine results matter very much for skill players.






You can watch all the tape you want, but its still good to get up close and personal with the players.  See how they carry themselves.  If your getting ready to invest millions in a guy, it might be a good idea to chat him up a bit.

Interviewing is very important. But how fast a guy runs the 40 didn't change how fast he was on the field 6 months ago. It just gives you a number to put on it. It doesn't change anything, doesn't make people faster or stronger. They are what they are, running a fast 40 in April doesn't change how productive they were in college.

\\\\\\\"This forum needs a poster like BucNY now more than ever\\\\\\\"
      - Everyone

JDouble

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 29156
Offline
#41 : January 17, 2013, 01:14:02 PM

Every year some kids jump up the draft chart because they are amazing athletes at the combine, and people forget that they aren't great football players. Happens every year and almost every time the kid ends up being a bust. You can improve a kids athletism and overall conditioning, but you can't make a kid develop instincts and force him to become a great football player. If a kid hasnt used his freakish athletism to dominate after eight years of highschool and college, having an amazing combine isn't going to change that. You either have impressive game tape or you don't.
: January 17, 2013, 01:16:01 PM JDouble


Buc on the Move

*****
Pro Bowler

Posts : 1545
Offline
#42 : January 17, 2013, 01:53:26 PM

They should change the name of the Combine to "NFL: Show and Tell"

chace1986

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 13449
Offline
#43 : January 17, 2013, 01:54:42 PM

They should change the name of the Combine to "NFL: Show and Tell"

With your hosts, Rich Eisen and Michael Irvin.


Buc on the Move

*****
Pro Bowler

Posts : 1545
Offline
#44 : January 17, 2013, 02:01:43 PM

I'll never forget when Texas Monthly did the cover picture parodying the Milk Mustache commercials with Irvin and a cocaine mustache...priceless.
Page: 1 2 3 4
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Is Xavier Rhodes really a good fit as a Bucanneer? « previous next »
:

Hide Tools Show Tools