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Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Todd Wash, Robert Nunn, Keith Millard, Grady Stretz, and Randy Melvin « previous next »
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Feel Real Good

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: January 17, 2013, 10:11:25 AM

The Bucs have now been though five defensive line coaches in four years and the only constant is the pass rush is still terrible. Are we to keep believing the problem is the coaches are not doing a good enough job coaching the players or is maybe the guy who picks the players not doing a good enough job picking the players? How much longer are we going to keep doing this?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

BucBalla85

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#1 : January 17, 2013, 10:18:23 AM

Well a big part of me says its the players. However they have also seen some key players get hurt and that can hurt their performance. They would have scrubs take their place. Now I also think the guys we have now, regardless if they are hurt or not, are not good enough to be what we want them to be. Consistent pass rushers. Clayborn, bowers, Bennett are not guys who are a big threat to get to the QB onmamconsistent basis. Maybe Bowers is getting there but I like the other two as run stuffers. Bennett got to the QB last year but I'm not sure if he is a 9 sack guy. I think they need to upgrade the position. The coach only does so much IMO.

big_JLB

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#2 : January 17, 2013, 10:29:11 AM

The coach only does so much IMO.

+1

09 - jimmy wilkerson, stylez g. white, ryan sims, kyle moore, dre moore, roy miller, chris hovan, maurice evans, tim crowder, michael bennett, gaines adams

10 - tim crowder, gerald mccoy, roy miller, stylez g. white, al woods, michael bennett, ryan sims, frank okam, kyle moore, erik lorig

11 - michael bennett, da'quan bowers, adrian clayborn, jovan haye, albert hanesworth, roy miller, frank okam, brian price, gerald mccoy, john mccargo, e.j. wilson, george johnson, tim crowder, daniel te'o-nesheim

12 - michael bennett, da'quan bowers, adrian clayborn, aaron morgan, daniel t'eo-nesheim, gary gibson, cory irvin, gerald mccoy, roy miller, matthew masifilo, lazarius levingston

the overall talent hasn't been up to par, and the talent that is there (mccoy, clayborn, bennett, bowers) is finally staying healthy or coming into their own as NFL players. sucks that all those coaches couldn't accelerate that process, because there were some good ones. regardless, this team needs to add some friggen SPEEEEEED at DE, and the DT depth as it stands now is terrifying


NotDeadYet

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#3 : January 17, 2013, 10:50:42 AM

     I look at McCoy as the only starter-caliber guy we have at DT. Miller and Gibson are both decent rotation guys, but not starters that scare the opposition. Especially on 3rd down!
    At DE, Bowers has improved some despite injuries. DTN and Bennett have responded well to coaching at DE, but unless Claiborne improves his quick-twitch factor, I don't see him as ever being dominant.

Buc on the Move

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#4 : January 17, 2013, 11:20:55 AM

I have a tough time evaluating Clayborn based on one season in the league, though no one we have now strikes me as an elite rusher.  At least not at this point in their careers.  I mentioned on another thread, that this kind of coaching turnover would be an excuse for a quarterback's performance from some camps, but no one seems willing to go out on that same limb for DL guys.  Especially considering most of our talent on the Dline is pretty young, couldn't getting coached in different techniques every year stunt the growth a little bit?  Not trying to make excuses, just seriously asking.

chace1986

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#5 : January 17, 2013, 11:43:36 AM

There must have been something behind the scenes that led to the Melvin fire. While the sacks weren't there, we saw good performances from GMC and Bennett. We also saw some decent pass rush from guys like DTN and Gibson. With Clayborn returning and more DL talent to come, it would have made sense to let Melvin have a decent crack at it next year...so there could have been just a stylistic difference, or something like that.
: January 17, 2013, 11:45:38 AM chace1986


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

Sailing2smth

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#6 : January 17, 2013, 11:46:08 AM

     but unless Claiborne improves his quick-twitch factor, I don't see him as ever being dominant.

Just out of curiosity, what is a quick twitch factor?
Claiborne has the skill and ability to become a dominant DE.  Just needs to stay healthy and keep progressing, he will be a Pro Bowler. 

Lastly, wish we still had Millard, liked him as a player and coach.

bucshot420

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#7 : January 17, 2013, 12:23:31 PM

     but unless Claiborne improves his quick-twitch factor, I don't see him as ever being dominant.

Just out of curiosity, what is a quick twitch factor?
Claiborne has the skill and ability to become a dominant DE.  Just needs to stay healthy and keep progressing, he will be a Pro Bowler. 

Lastly, wish we still had Millard, liked him as a player and coach.

I'm thinking he means fast twitch muscle fiber contraction being the factor.

bucshot420

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#8 : January 17, 2013, 12:30:16 PM

I liked Millard also and would have liked to see what he could do with more depth on the line.  At the same time though Melvin did a good job in his own right,  we weren't a very good unit when it came to sacks generated, which I know is the main stat looked at on the DL.  But he did do a good job with technique, helping improve both GMAC and Bennett's sack totals.  Roy Miller was also on his last leg here before Melvin made him good for something with his run game support.  Granted Bennett was in a contract year, but to see him double his sack output from last year was impressive.  I'm very curious and anxious to see who they bring in to take over the unit.

NotDeadYet

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#9 : January 17, 2013, 12:32:11 PM

     but unless Claiborne improves his quick-twitch factor, I don't see him as ever being dominant.

Just out of curiosity, what is a quick twitch factor?
Claiborne has the skill and ability to become a dominant DE.  Just needs to stay healthy and keep progressing, he will be a Pro Bowler. 

Lastly, wish we still had Millard, liked him as a player and coach.
   Exceptionally quick first step. Vikings' Allen has it, Dwight Freeney had it. Von Miller does. Claiborn is all-out tenacious and physically strong, but doesn't appear to yet have a real quick first step. When I say he's not dominant, doesn't mean he won't be a good pass rusher in a well-coordinated overall pass-rush scheme. That kinda teamwork takes time to develop.  I just meant as an individual, I don't see him dominating opposing LT's.

Booker Reese

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#10 : January 17, 2013, 12:40:53 PM

I know what you are getting at FRG, but.....

 - Nunn was brought in to coach an entirely different scheme by the coordinator that Raheem fired - his link to the Bucs was Bates. If I were guessing, his firing was due to coaching chemistry issues. I'd point out that he coached an entirely different set of players (except for Roy Miller, who was a rookie).

- Stretz and Millard were fired because everyone was fired. That was house-cleaning, pure and simple.

- Melvin isn't the only coach involved - Cox is working with the front 7. Maybe those guys had trouble getting along.

I think you made a similar, but much better case with the OL a few years ago.
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