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The Anti-Java

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#15 : January 21, 2013, 09:40:32 PM

The reason for this dip in completion percentage is the offensive scheme that this team uses now. It relies on a lot of option routes and sight adjustments by receivers. If the QB and receiver both make the correct read, the offense can be unstoppable because the proper route and throw would be made to combat any coverage.

Needless to say, it is difficult for both the QB and the receiver to always be on the same page and this takes an unbelievable amount of practice and time together. I believe we will probably see his completion percentage go up a good amount as he continues to develop familiarity with his receivers within this new scheme.

This.

I agree with others though that he still definitely needs to improve his accuracy on intermediate routes.




Not sure that is something he can improve.  He lacks touch on mid range and short dump offs.  I have noticed Russell Wilson and Kap have nice touch on the short stuff.  I believe you have it or you don't.


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tbc_bucs

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#16 : January 21, 2013, 10:19:24 PM

The reason for this dip in completion percentage is the offensive scheme that this team uses now. It relies on a lot of option routes and sight adjustments by receivers. If the QB and receiver both make the correct read, the offense can be unstoppable because the proper route and throw would be made to combat any coverage.

Needless to say, it is difficult for both the QB and the receiver to always be on the same page and this takes an unbelievable amount of practice and time together. I believe we will probably see his completion percentage go up a good amount as he continues to develop familiarity with his receivers within this new scheme.

This.

I agree with others though that he still definitely needs to improve his accuracy on intermediate routes.

Yeah, I've heard a lot about this throughout the year and how it's taken some time for Eli in NY to get comfortable in the offense.
I agree with intermediate accuracy, but I also agree with Boid and freeman might be nervous.

A part of those nerves could be "traumatic experiences" such as what happened in 2011.
You don't go 25-6 and not be a good player in this league. The 2010 defense was the best defense freeman had, if it weren't for the bs call on winslow in the lions game we would've been in the playoffs and chances are the packers wouldn't have been there to make a Super Bowl run...

It's all relative...
Seems like a combination of factors from nerves to better intermediate routes to protection to timing wi receivers...
Freeman, come check out this thread.

Fans are supposed to be critics, were fans. He should be reading these boards.


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#17 : January 21, 2013, 10:22:34 PM

Alright, I've read a lot if posts about Freeman on this board. With the way Freeman played down the stretch he deserves all the criticism he's been getting. I am not a Freeman apologist, whatsoever. But I'm also not a Freeman hater.

Looking at the stats for the last three years something jumps out at me. That is his completion percentage.

2010: 61.4%
2011: 62.8%
2012: 54.8%

Why the huge dip in completion percentage? I got to thinking back to the old LOLsen offense and all the dinking and dunking that went on. Freeman rarely was asked to throw the ball beyond 10 yards up the field.

Freeman isn't the most accurate QB in the league to begin with but I have to think that the more he practices his deep ball the better he will become. In my mind, something as simple as improving accuracy is the difference between 7-9 and 12-4. If Freeman can complete 61-63% of his passes in THIS offense it means he has more 300 yard games and we score on more explosive plays,

This offseason is the most important in his career and a new contract lies in the balance. It's all on him and only him to improve. No excuses (lockout, new offense, etc.) ...Hopefully schiano wanted Mcnulty for a reason and that happens.

Weve seen clutch games. We have also seen boneheaded interceptions.
Is it as simple as accuracy in your mind?

If not, what more would you like to see improve this year?
My 2 cents.
For one, when you throw the ball down the field a lot your going to completer less passes, you just are. For awhile Freeman lead the league in yards per completion. That's not a well known stat but with in the league, its an important stat and a better barometer of hire well a quarterback is playing. Remember, Alex Smith had 2 or 3 incompletions over a2 game span. But he want throwing the ball down field. Michael Crabtree has looked like a bust.... Until kaepernick got in the line up and started throwing the ball down field, now he looks like a legitimate number 1 receiver.

Secondly, this is supposedly a read reaction offense. Meaning the receivers and the quarterbacks have to read the defense and choose between a series of routes on each play. If its zone the routes might stop in the openings in zone if its man the WR will run through the route. A lot of his missed throws came on plays when he and receivers weren't on the same page.

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#18 : January 21, 2013, 10:27:13 PM

The reason for this dip in completion percentage is the offensive scheme that this team uses now. It relies on a lot of option routes and sight adjustments by receivers. If the QB and receiver both make the correct read, the offense can be unstoppable because the proper route and throw would be made to combat any coverage.

Needless to say, it is difficult for both the QB and the receiver to always be on the same page and this takes an unbelievable amount of practice and time together. I believe we will probably see his completion percentage go up a good amount as he continues to develop familiarity with his receivers within this new scheme.

Eli's highest compl% is 62.9, just 4 times in his career he complete more than 60%.
Elis stated it took him 4 years to understand those option routes.

Still i think it would have been nice to see Freeman being closer to 60 than 50% already this year.

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#19 : January 21, 2013, 10:29:32 PM

And yet Eli still has games when he looks absolutely clueless out there, most notable from this season, towards the end particularly (in the clutch, to be noted as well).  He looked like he didn't have a grasp of the offense, right?

But I tell you what, I would take Eli over Freeman EVERY SUNDAY on gamedays.  TRUTH.



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#20 : January 21, 2013, 10:35:45 PM

For those that say Free needs more time with his WRs to improve timing/accuracy, how do you explain the success of others with equal or in some cases lesser time with their WRs?

My 2 cents.
For one, when you throw the ball down the field a lot your going to completer less passes, you just are.

Drew Brees disagrees!!

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 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

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#21 : January 21, 2013, 10:37:15 PM

For those that say Free needs more time with his WRs to improve timing/accuracy, how do you explain the success of others with equal or in some cases lesser time with their WRs?
First of all, Josh was 24 then.

Second, it is the defenses fault.


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#22 : January 21, 2013, 10:38:42 PM

For those that say Free needs more time with his WRs to improve timing/accuracy, how do you explain the success of others with equal or in some cases lesser time with their WRs?
First of all, Josh was 24 then.

Second, it is the defenses fault.

thnx man.... i had no idea!!!

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 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

Boid Fink

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#23 : January 21, 2013, 10:41:00 PM

Freeman needs another bandage on his thumb.


tbc_bucs

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#24 : January 21, 2013, 10:42:06 PM

The reason for this dip in completion percentage is the offensive scheme that this team uses now. It relies on a lot of option routes and sight adjustments by receivers. If the QB and receiver both make the correct read, the offense can be unstoppable because the proper route and throw would be made to combat any coverage.

Needless to say, it is difficult for both the QB and the receiver to always be on the same page and this takes an unbelievable amount of practice and time together. I believe we will probably see his completion percentage go up a good amount as he continues to develop familiarity with his receivers within this new scheme.

Eli's highest compl% is 62.9, just 4 times in his career he complete more than 60%.
Elis stated it took him 4 years to understand those option routes.

Still i think it would have been nice to see Freeman being closer to 60 than 50% already this year.

It is quite interesting that Eli is a career 58.6% passer in this offense. He hasn't had any other offense since he came into the league.

Here's the percentages from 2004-2012 in order:
48.2
52.8
57.7
56.1
60.3
62.3
62.9
61.0
59.9

Sadly, seeing those stat lines makes me feel better about where freeman is right now. Hopefully he has the luxury to stay the course like Eli in the same offense.


RogerGoodellSucks

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#25 : January 21, 2013, 10:44:59 PM

For those that say Free needs more time with his WRs to improve timing/accuracy, how do you explain the success of others with equal or in some cases lesser time with their WRs?

Different offenses.

Did you read bucs449's post? Sully's offense has a lot of options routes where the QB and WR need to be on the same page, or it won't work. Takes a little more time with your  receivers to get those plays down. There's been multiple threads and links posted about this and even one's with Eli talking about how it took him years to fully master the system.


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#26 : January 21, 2013, 10:46:02 PM

And yet Eli looked lost out there last season (at the end).


1sparkybuc

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#27 : January 21, 2013, 11:02:50 PM

His accuracy improved in his second year and again in his third year. The combination of new players, new coaches, and new scheme (more deep throws) caused the drop in completion percentage in his fourth year. Also a factor was at the line adjustments of the QB and the receivers. The defense dictated what route was actually going to be run. In order for that to work, they have to see the same thing. The offense allows for many options. It's complicated, maybe more than it should have been. Since VJax set personal records with his first year with Freeman, it's reasonable to expect new career highs as they become more familiar with the scheme and each other. It appears the Bucs want to upgrade the TE and slot receiver positions. That should make the short and intermediate routes more effective. We still don't have a true speed burner. I like that we are in the process of improving the most prolific offense in franchise history. A little more time to gel and a few more pieces to upgrade. Greg Schiano has this team headed in the right direction.

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#28 : January 21, 2013, 11:07:20 PM

    If I was a DC playing vs the Bucs or Giants, I'd throw new wrinkles in the pass D to create doubt in the WRs and QBs as to what they are seeing as the routes unfold. I've heard Freeman mention in PC's the opposing D doing something he hadn't seen from their film study. Like a good Marine, Josh needs to learn to think better on the fly... ;) Throwing off the offense's timing on their plays is the key for any D's success.

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#29 : January 21, 2013, 11:14:36 PM

And yet Eli still has games when he looks absolutely clueless out there, most notable from this season, towards the end particularly (in the clutch, to be noted as well).  He looked like he didn't have a grasp of the offense, right?

But I tell you what, I would take Eli over Freeman EVERY SUNDAY on gamedays.  TRUTH.

Yes, NOW i would also take a 32 year old Eli over a 25 year old Freeman, no doubt.

But a 32 year old Freeman might be as productive as a 32 year old Eli, especially considering we have Freeman for 'free' and would have to trade for Eli.

Would Freeman have been around 56%  this year, i would be even more optimistic about.
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