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BucNY

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#45 : January 26, 2013, 08:46:31 AM

Who cares about records.  We want playoff wins.  I'm still behind JF but he has to get his head outta wherever it is.

What is wrong with you? Again, Freeman not perfect, but this defense was the reason we didn't win down the stretch. How many game winning drives did they give up? We don't blame the defense for giving them up, we blame Freeman for the offensive 10 yard holding penalty that made us punt it back to them.

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#46 : January 26, 2013, 09:03:23 AM

I'm guessing you wasn't at the Cowboys game.  I was, it was embarrassing.  I get what you're saying but QB is where the Buc stops.  Not a bad pun,huh?  I know the pass D is bad.  I'm not blaming JF for all the loses.  It's the overthrows,  what appears to be lack of leadership, the unwillingness to tuck the ball and run, locking onto receivers and not being able to read a D that concerns me.  Like I said I'm still pulling for the guy, I hope he comes out this year and shows that he's the man.  But if not he can take his Bucs records on down the road for all I care.  It's about the team not #5.  That's what's wrong with me.  What's wrong with you?  Are you good with 7-9 seasons?

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#47 : January 26, 2013, 10:04:25 AM

It blows my mind that a guy who broke almost every single season passing record in Franchise history can be considered by many in the media and fanbase to be a horrible waste of time. The guy had 2 bad games that cost us and stuggled with his intermediate passing game. Other than that he was very good all year.

The franchise records are irrelevant. There isn't exactly a glowing history of QB play in this franchise's history. His lack of consistent good QB play is why the fanbase is frustrated and why guys like Brandt rank him where they have him. He had more than 2 bad games and he was not even close to being "very good" all year.


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#48 : January 26, 2013, 10:34:27 AM

It blows my mind that a guy who broke almost every single season passing record in Franchise history can be considered by many in the media and fanbase to be a horrible waste of time. The guy had 2 bad games that cost us and stuggled with his intermediate passing game. Other than that he was very good all year.

Ahhh..... so records are what's important to you? I'm more concerned with his 54% and obvious mental lapses...while having a top 5 receiving duo in the league.

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 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

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#49 : January 26, 2013, 11:29:01 AM


 "People refuse to accept the fact that Brad Johnson with this defense wouldn't have been able to match the 7-9 record we had this year."

For the rest of you, what chance do you think you have of reasoning with someone who makes up fantasy scenarios and tries to present them as fact? Logic just isn't going to have much impact on somebody that makes decisions based on emotion.

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

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#50 : January 26, 2013, 11:39:07 AM

I'd take Steve Young, Steve Deberg, Doug Williams, Jeff Garcia, Brian Griese, Trent Dilfer, Chris Chandler, Craig Erickson and Vinny Testaverde over Freeman.     I'd take Freeman over Shaun King, Jack Thompson, Parnell **CENSORED**inson, Steve Spurrier, Gary Huff, Mike Rae, Josh McCown, Bryon Leftwich, Josh Johnson, and Chris Simms.
For their play while in Tampa - no to Young, DeBerg, Williams, Griese, Dilfer, Chandler, Erickson, and Testaverde as well.  Brad - yes, Garcia likely a yes - the rest were a really sad bunch while with the bucs Java.  Really sad.
Did you actually see DrBerg play for the Bucs.  There's no question in my mind he played with more heart, brains and was twice the leader as #5.  Josh has way more physical ability but it takes more than a long ball to make an NFL QB.  I'm pulling for Josh.  This year.

If DeBerg is the QB for the Bucs when their defense was good.....aka the Doug Williams years....they play in the Super Bowl.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

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#51 : January 26, 2013, 11:45:19 AM

  It's about the team not #5. 

xd, its about the team. Then why try to improve the team JUST by pointing at #5?

I would not rate Freeman much higher than Gil Brandt did here, even if i do not see Tannenhill, Bradford, Smith and RG3 as BETTER QBs than him. At the age of 25 he is still is inconsistent, no doubt. As Gil, i think he 'has everything needed to do the job'.

So Freeman is ABOVE AVERAGE. I would get how Freeman is a weakness of this team if our defense would be above average aswell and we still not winning more than 7 games a year. But as of right now our defense is hardly a top 30 defense ...out of 32 teams in the league.

No one of the guys saying Freeman has value to this team says we should NOT improve at QB if given the opportunity, pass on an elite QB available to this team. But how a CHANGE at QB improves this team is beyond me, especially if we ignore our defense and not not make use of the value of Freeman, atleast trade wise.

Change does not spell improvement, even more so if you are already above average.

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#52 : January 26, 2013, 12:11:06 PM

I don't want to get rid of JF, I want him to play more consistantly and lead our team with an improved D to at least a playoff win next year.

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#53 : January 26, 2013, 03:32:41 PM

It blows my mind that a guy who broke almost every single season passing record in Franchise history can be considered by many in the media and fanbase to be a horrible waste of time.

It blows my mind that people actually find him breaking those records impressive
What exactly did he do to impress, break records that were mostly held by Vinny Intercepteverde, WOW!!!
Maybe if we'd had any QBs in the past that had set the records at a level that meant something him breaking them might be impressive.
I mean he breaks the franchise record for most yards in a season, problem is there were 8 other QBs (a quarter of the league) last year alone that threw for more yardage.
Don't you also find it odd that passing records of all types are falling with ease the last few years?
Calvin Johnson didn't just break the receiving mark he blew it out the water
Until 2008 there was just one 5000 yard passing season in history, we've had 4 in the past 2 seasons, 7 of the top 10 seasons ever came in the past 2 years.
Headed into the 2011 the most passing yards allowed in one season was 4541(set by the 95 Falcons), that season now ranks 5th. 6 of the 7 worst seasons EVER came the past 2 years.
It used to be that the benchmark for a good season by a QB was 3000 yards and around 25 TDs, those numbers are laughable by todays standards.
Just look at our Super Bowl year and compare with this past season....
QBs throwing for 3000 yards
2002 - 17
2012 - 24
QBs throwing for 4000 yards
2002 - 4
2012 - 11
QBs throwing 25 or more TDs
2002 - 6
2012 - 12
QBs throwing 30 or more TDs
2002 - 0
2012 - 5
QBs who had a Rating of 90 or more (with at least 200 attempts)
2002 - 6
2012 - 12
QBs with a rating of 100 or more (with at least 200 attempts)
2002 - 2
2012 - 5

Are you honestly going to act like Josh breaking a few team records means anything when no offensive record in the league means a thing anymore.
The NFL has neutered defenses to the point that previous benchmarks for offensive records are expected to be matched by at least 2 QBs each season, if Drew Brees doesn't have 5000 yards now it's going to be considered an off year for him.
It's a joke.
Broke Bucs franchise records, who cares?

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#54 : January 26, 2013, 03:48:38 PM

YEA!  That's what I was gonna say but I can't really type!!!

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#55 : January 26, 2013, 03:53:46 PM

It blows my mind that a guy who broke almost every single season passing record in Franchise history can be considered by many in the media and fanbase to be a horrible waste of time.

It blows my mind that people actually find him breaking those records impressive
What exactly did he do to impress, break records that were mostly held by Vinny Intercepteverde, WOW!!!
Maybe if we'd had any QBs in the past that had set the records at a level that meant something him breaking them might be impressive.
I mean he breaks the franchise record for most yards in a season, problem is there were 8 other QBs (a quarter of the league) last year alone that threw for more yardage.
Don't you also find it odd that passing records of all types are falling with ease the last few years?
Calvin Johnson didn't just break the receiving mark he blew it out the water
Until 2008 there was just one 5000 yard passing season in history, we've had 4 in the past 2 seasons, 7 of the top 10 seasons ever came in the past 2 years.
Headed into the 2011 the most passing yards allowed in one season was 4541(set by the 95 Falcons), that season now ranks 5th. 6 of the 7 worst seasons EVER came the past 2 years.
It used to be that the benchmark for a good season by a QB was 3000 yards and around 25 TDs, those numbers are laughable by todays standards.
Just look at our Super Bowl year and compare with this past season....
QBs throwing for 3000 yards
2002 - 17
2012 - 24
QBs throwing for 4000 yards
2002 - 4
2012 - 11
QBs throwing 25 or more TDs
2002 - 6
2012 - 12
QBs throwing 30 or more TDs
2002 - 0
2012 - 5
QBs who had a Rating of 90 or more (with at least 200 attempts)
2002 - 6
2012 - 12
QBs with a rating of 100 or more (with at least 200 attempts)
2002 - 2
2012 - 5

Are you honestly going to act like Josh breaking a few team records means anything when no offensive record in the league means a thing anymore.
The NFL has neutered defenses to the point that previous benchmarks for offensive records are expected to be matched by at least 2 QBs each season, if Drew Brees doesn't have 5000 yards now it's going to be considered an off year for him.
It's a joke.
Broke Bucs franchise records, who cares?

Good post.   


Chief Joseph

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#56 : January 26, 2013, 03:56:19 PM


Single Season Records

Passing

Attempts: 570, Brad Johnson (2003)
Completions: 354, Brad Johnson (2003)
Completion Percentage: 69.3 (233-336), Brian Griese (2004)
Yards: 4,065, Josh Freeman (2012)
Touchdowns: 27, Josh Freeman (2012)
Interceptions: 35, Vinny Testaverde (1988)
Rating (minimum 100 attempts): 97.5, Brian Griese (2004)

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

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#57 : January 26, 2013, 03:57:09 PM

I'm guessing you wasn't at the Cowboys game.  I was, it was embarrassing.  I get what you're saying but QB is where the Buc stops.  Not a bad pun,huh?  I know the pass D is bad.  I'm not blaming JF for all the loses.  It's the overthrows,  what appears to be lack of leadership, the unwillingness to tuck the ball and run, locking onto receivers and not being able to read a D that concerns me.  Like I said I'm still pulling for the guy, I hope he comes out this year and shows that he's the man.  But if not he can take his Bucs records on down the road for all I care.  It's about the team not #5.  That's what's wrong with me.  What's wrong with you?  Are you good with 7-9 seasons?
If you want to rip on Freeman for the Eagles game, Rams game, or other poor showings at the end of the season, go ahead. But the Cowboys game was on Schiano and the 1960's philosophy he had at the beginning of the year to just have Freeman play conservative, hand the ball to Martin, and win 16-13.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#58 : January 26, 2013, 04:15:48 PM

I'd take Steve Young, Steve Deberg, Doug Williams, Jeff Garcia, Brian Griese, Trent Dilfer, Chris Chandler, Craig Erickson and Vinny Testaverde over Freeman.     I'd take Freeman over Shaun King, Jack Thompson, Parnell **CENSORED**inson, Steve Spurrier, Gary Huff, Mike Rae, Josh McCown, Bryon Leftwich, Josh Johnson, and Chris Simms.
For their play while in Tampa - no to Young, DeBerg, Williams, Griese, Dilfer, Chandler, Erickson, and Testaverde as well.  Brad - yes, Garcia likely a yes - the rest were a really sad bunch while with the bucs Java.  Really sad.
Did you actually see DrBerg play for the Bucs.  There's no question in my mind he played with more heart, brains and was twice the leader as #5.  Josh has way more physical ability but it takes more than a long ball to make an NFL QB.  I'm pulling for Josh.  This year.
Yes, and he showed heart, brains and leadership - well except for the off the field stuff - but no - he was not better than Freeman.  When you ball fake is what you're known for it isn't good.  Put DeBerg's brain in Freeman's body and you have something. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#59 : January 26, 2013, 04:17:49 PM

Put DeBerg's brain in Freeman's body and you have something.

Exactly.  To quote one of the girls from the movie "Valley Girl"...     Freeman's got the bod, but he brains are bad news.

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