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dbucfan

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#60 : January 26, 2013, 04:19:45 PM

I'd take Steve Young, Steve Deberg, Doug Williams, Jeff Garcia, Brian Griese, Trent Dilfer, Chris Chandler, Craig Erickson and Vinny Testaverde over Freeman.     I'd take Freeman over Shaun King, Jack Thompson, Parnell **CENSORED**inson, Steve Spurrier, Gary Huff, Mike Rae, Josh McCown, Bryon Leftwich, Josh Johnson, and Chris Simms.
For their play while in Tampa - no to Young, DeBerg, Williams, Griese, Dilfer, Chandler, Erickson, and Testaverde as well.  Brad - yes, Garcia likely a yes - the rest were a really sad bunch while with the bucs Java.  Really sad.
Did you actually see DrBerg play for the Bucs.  There's no question in my mind he played with more heart, brains and was twice the leader as #5.  Josh has way more physical ability but it takes more than a long ball to make an NFL QB.  I'm pulling for Josh.  This year.

If DeBerg is the QB for the Bucs when their defense was good.....aka the Doug Williams years....they play in the Super Bowl.
Great opinion.  And with the '99-02 team both he and Freeman would have shared the same opportunity.  That said - I can't do more than opine about that - and you're in the same boat.  Difference is with bad teams Freeman has been on this year's team and the 10 win team.  And he didn't come in experienced.  So there you have it - discussion.  Best 3 buccaneer qbs of all time - Brad, Josh and Garcia - the rest are in a blurred world of losing with great consistency.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#61 : January 26, 2013, 04:39:08 PM

I have no doubt that the 2012 Bucs would have been a better team with Steve Young, Steve Deberg, Doug Williams, Jeff Garcia, Brad Johnson, Brian Griese, Trent Dilfer, Chris Chandler, Craig Erickson or Vinny Testaverde at their skill level in their 4th NFL season rather than Freeman in his 4th.


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#62 : January 26, 2013, 04:47:53 PM

I have no doubt that the 2012 Bucs would have been a better team with Steve Young, Steve Deberg, Doug Williams, Jeff Garcia, Brad Johnson, Brian Griese, Trent Dilfer, Chris Chandler, Craig Erickson or Vinny Testaverde at their skill level in their 4th NFL season rather than Freeman in his 4th.
Not with the Young, Deberg, Williams, Griese, Dilfer, Erickson or Testaverde that played in Tampa - I just flat disagree.  Everyone one of them played better at other times in their careers - while here to say they were better is simply an overstatement imvho. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#63 : January 26, 2013, 04:48:45 PM

Yeah, I'm having a hard time digesting the notion of Josh as one of our three best, even given out lackluster history.

dbucfan

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#64 : January 26, 2013, 04:49:02 PM

and to this very day I think drafting Freeman was the wrong choice - which I would offer explains my thoughts and evaluation of buccaneer qbs overall...

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#65 : January 26, 2013, 04:49:31 PM

  Everyone one of them played better at other times in their careers

That's because they had better weapons to work with on those other teams.   The 2012 Bucs offense had tons of weapons.    Those guys would have done great on that 2012 team.


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#66 : January 26, 2013, 04:53:19 PM

  Everyone one of them played better at other times in their careers

That's because they had better weapons to work with on those other teams.   The 2012 Bucs offense had tons of weapons.    Those guys would have done great on that 2012 team.
I am not up to making excuses - like not having a D, new system, new players, injuries... all that has to be off to the side.  No excuses.  And when you look at it that way - you have the difference.  Freeman has simply done better - sadly enough - than all those guys. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#67 : January 26, 2013, 05:01:31 PM

I have no doubt that the 2012 Bucs would have been a better team with Steve Young, Steve Deberg, Doug Williams, Jeff Garcia, Brad Johnson, Brian Griese, Trent Dilfer, Chris Chandler, Craig Erickson or Vinny Testaverde at their skill level in their 4th NFL season rather than Freeman in his 4th.

Yeah, nice 'what if scenario'.
If we would have had half a HC we would have not traded for a retired J Plummer, who already stated twice before to NOT come back. A Rodgers could have been our QB.

But what ever, non of those QB produced much HERE, all were constantly blamed for everything and most of them got run out of town, non of these QBs is available to this team now anyway, JUST Freeman is and he seems to be just as good as all of them ...HERE, atleast.
You could have been a NFL QB yourself, would you not be so small. You could cry about this all your life or think about what to do else with your opportunities. Apparently you faced reality and got a job elsewhere. gradz.

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#68 : January 26, 2013, 05:03:01 PM

Put Freeman (replace Erickson with Freeman in this picture) on the 1994 Bucs as their QB and see how "better" he does.    He stinks.



His receivers were Courtney Hawkins and Charles Wilson.   LOL!

I think VJax and Mike Williams may be just a tad better weapons.


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#69 : January 26, 2013, 05:06:23 PM

If we would have had half a HC we would have not traded for a retired J Plummer, who already stated twice before to NOT come back. A Rodgers could have been our QB.

Considering they attempted to bring in Plummer in 2007 and Rodgers was drafted in 2005, you obviously have no clue.


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#70 : January 26, 2013, 05:15:58 PM



That's because they had better weapons to work with on those other teams.   The 2012 Bucs offense had tons of weapons.    Those guys would have done great on that 2012 team.

It did not change your opinion on Gruden, that he had a once in a lifetime defense to rely on.
Should we discuss how Gruden would have done with a bad team? Wait we already know how this worked out...no PO win since 2002.
Once Kiffin/Brooks etc ran out of gas he did not have one single win...coincidence?

Vjax had the best season of his career, despite having Brees and Rivers as his QBs earlier in his career. You could argue how Freeman made Vjax look good, but stick to your 'weapons define QBs', with Gruden we would not have seen 2 'weapons' on the field at the same time anyway. ... shotgun formations are the devil.

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#71 : January 26, 2013, 05:17:59 PM

Put Freeman (replace Erickson with Freeman in this picture) on the 1994 Bucs as their QB and see how "better" he does.    He stinks.



His receivers were Courtney Hawkins and Charles Wilson.   LOL!

I think VJax and Mike Williams may be just a tad better weapons.
You need to stop looking for the debate - you are talking about degrees of failure with those guys - there is NO assurance they would play better with better players.  We do know they were not successful in their time in Tampa.  This is the excuse stuff I was telling you needs to be avoided.  Comparison of players from different eras, teams, and coaches is nothing more than opinion - and goes no where. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#72 : January 26, 2013, 05:18:06 PM

If we would have had half a HC we would have not traded for a retired J Plummer, who already stated twice before to NOT come back. A Rodgers could have been our QB.

Considering they attempted to bring in Plummer in 2007 and Rodgers was drafted in 2005, you obviously have no clue.

xd, Rodgers got drafted BEFORE Plummer retired, action and reaction. It would have been smart to trade for a QB BEFORE he retires.

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#73 : January 26, 2013, 05:20:52 PM

That trade had about zero effect on the Bucs.   Not sure why you would obsess about Plummer.   

Too bad he didn't come to the bucs though, he'd have lit it up.


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#74 : January 26, 2013, 05:23:54 PM


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