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McCoy93

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#30 : January 28, 2013, 12:26:56 PM

I'd rather have Cordaralle Patterson than Keenan Allen. Patterson might be raw but his ceiling is much higher than Allen. He has a Julio Jones type game

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#31 : January 28, 2013, 12:30:55 PM

As I said if you draft Allen, which I'm not against, you need to do it for him to be the #1 receiver in 2-3 years.

 i just dont want to use a 1st to replace a hole we unnecessarily created (by not re-signing mike will)

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#32 : January 28, 2013, 12:45:07 PM

As I said if you draft Allen, which I'm not against, you need to do it for him to be the #1 receiver in 2-3 years.

i just dont want to use a 1st to replace a hole we unnecessarily created (by not re-signing mike will)
1. We saw in 2011 the NFL figured out how to neutralize MW as a #1 WR and Vincent Jackson is already 30 years old. By 2014-2015, needing a #1 WR might not be a self-created hole. It might happen all on its own.

2. The 1st round is all about getting a 10-year player with the ability to make a few Pro Bowls. You can't choose which position. There's only a few of those players available each year. If Allen ends up being a Roddy White caliber player the Bucs absolutely need to investigate him.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#33 : January 28, 2013, 12:45:23 PM

In his defense, I don't think Brady, Brees, Rodgers, or Manning would do much better with this receiving corp... though, if this receiving corp were in New England, New Orleans, Green Bay, or Denver, I do think they'd fair better.

can you better explain this?

i just think 3 stud WR's is overkill.  no one does that, especially not a team that has a QB who isnt known for distributing the ball effectively.

That was based on the complete lack of depth that we have as far as NFL calibre receivers AFTER Williams and Jackson.  My statement was based on a legitimate scenario where as one or even both missed any time.  What you quoted was specifically refering to the question of, what would happen with this offense if it suffered a situation similar to Green Bay where they had Driver, Jennings, and Nelson all miss a bunch of games.  This team might get shut out every game.  If those 4 QB's were our guy here, while they have the ability to elevate the play of those around them... where Freeman does not, they probably wouldn't do much better, though they would do better.  Now, if this corp (outside of Jackson and Williams), were on those other teams with their coaches and QB's, I think they'd at least be serviceable.

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#34 : January 28, 2013, 01:15:32 PM

1. We saw in 2011 the NFL figured out how to neutralize MW as a #1 WR and Vincent Jackson is already 30 years old. By 2014-2015, needing a #1 WR might not be a self-created hole. It might happen all on its own.

2. The 1st round is all about getting a 10-year player with the ability to make a few Pro Bowls. You can't choose which position. There's only a few of those players available each year. If Allen ends up being a Roddy White caliber player the Bucs absolutely need to investigate him.

1 - agree to an extent.  the NFL figured out how to stop a 2nd year mike will.  will a 5th year mike will be different?
2 - if we cant find a player graded as high as this WR at #13...just wow.  maybe im biased on roddy white, but i could pass on that guy.  he's a numbers guy, like dwyane bowe to me.  i get your point though.

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#35 : January 28, 2013, 01:37:05 PM

2 - if we cant find a player graded as high as this WR at #13...just wow.  maybe im biased on roddy white, but i could pass on that guy.  he's a numbers guy, like dwyane bowe to me.  i get your point though.
You never know. When you look at drafts in hindsight it's amazing how many worthless players are drafted. Look at 2006:

13. Kamerion Wimbley: decent but mostly underwhelming; played for a few teams now
14. Brodrick Bunkley: at times good; played for three teams now
15. Tye Hill: total bust
16. Jason Allen: total bust
17. Chad Greenway: very good player
18. Bobby Carpenter: total bust
19. Antonio Cromartie: very good player
20. Tamba Hali: very good player
21. Laurence Maroney: total bust
22. Manny Lawson: very underwhelming

Let's say the Bucs are looking at ten players at #13, based on this five of them are going to be completely worthless or really close to worthless and only three will be considered very good. You can't choose which positions they're going to play. You just have to make sure you don't end up with Tye Hill. Is Keenan Allen going to be "very good"? I don't know. But I'm not ignoring him just because I have a 30-year old #1 WR I just paid a bunch of money to and a good #2 WR.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#36 : January 28, 2013, 01:41:26 PM

As I said if you draft Allen, which I'm not against, you need to do it for him to be the #1 receiver in 2-3 years.

i just dont want to use a 1st to replace a hole we unnecessarily created (by not re-signing mike will)
1. We saw in 2011 the NFL figured out how to neutralize MW as a #1 WR and Vincent Jackson is already 30 years old. By 2014-2015, needing a #1 WR might not be a self-created hole. It might happen all on its own.

2. The 1st round is all about getting a 10-year player with the ability to make a few Pro Bowls. You can't choose which position. There's only a few of those players available each year. If Allen ends up being a Roddy White caliber player the Bucs absolutely need to investigate him.

Right on.

You take great players in round 1, and you disregard position to a great extent. A 3rd receiver is not a luxury.

Tiquan Underwood was involved in 42% of the snaps (and remember, we settled on him later on in the season - Benn, Parker, Stroughter, and Owusu also took snaps). That's a lot.

I don't know if Allen is THE GUY, but I'd point out that Trufant thinks he's the toughest he's faced, and he's also played the two USC guys. 

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#37 : January 28, 2013, 01:47:37 PM

1. We saw in 2011 the NFL figured out how to neutralize MW as a #1 WR and Vincent Jackson is already 30 years old. By 2014-2015, needing a #1 WR might not be a self-created hole. It might happen all on its own.

2. The 1st round is all about getting a 10-year player with the ability to make a few Pro Bowls. You can't choose which position. There's only a few of those players available each year. If Allen ends up being a Roddy White caliber player the Bucs absolutely need to investigate him.

1 - agree to an extent.  the NFL figured out how to stop a 2nd year mike will.  will a 5th year mike will be different?
2 - if we cant find a player graded as high as this WR at #13...just wow.  maybe im biased on roddy white, but i could pass on that guy.  he's a numbers guy, like dwyane bowe to me.  i get your point though.

We don't know that, but why not hedge our bet.  This team is sorely lacking depth at the #3 position.  Underwood doesn't even belong in the NFL let alone on the field for 40% of any one teams snaps.  Allen can play the slot.  He can do it for the one year or 2.

I totally disagree with every you said after "2 - "... but that's why we have message boards and discussions.  We won't agree on everything.  No biggie.

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#38 : January 28, 2013, 01:47:59 PM

In his defense, I don't think Brady, Brees, Rodgers, or Manning would do much better with this receiving corp... though, if this receiving corp were in New England, New Orleans, Green Bay, or Denver, I do think they'd fair better.

can you better explain this?

i just think 3 stud WR's is overkill.  no one does that, especially not a team that has a QB who isnt known for distributing the ball effectively.

That was based on the complete lack of depth that we have as far as NFL calibre receivers AFTER Williams and Jackson.  My statement was based on a legitimate scenario where as one or even both missed any time.  What you quoted was specifically refering to the question of, what would happen with this offense if it suffered a situation similar to Green Bay where they had Driver, Jennings, and Nelson all miss a bunch of games.  This team might get shut out every game.  If those 4 QB's were our guy here, while they have the ability to elevate the play of those around them... where Freeman does not, they probably wouldn't do much better, though they would do better.  Now, if this corp (outside of Jackson and Williams), were on those other teams with their coaches and QB's, I think they'd at least be serviceable.

I'd only agree to another "star" wr in the sole intention of creating an offense any servicable QB could work with.

However, I already believe there is enough firepower surrounding freeman that IF he doesn't show us what we want to see out of him next season, we can place Manziel, rivers, or any other good QB that can work the field and we will do well.

Freeman HAS to learn his progressions and show that he can move the ball around, otherwise, we have a slightly more accurate Leftwitch (which could possibly get the job done anyway). Now, if we're looking for a Manning like player from him, we might as well let him go now, because he might never be. We play to his strengths until he is gone, then, when we get another QB, he will already have a servicable squad to work with. Freeman might not be the end all answer, but he provides someone to lure the owners into spending on offense for the time being.

I still believe freeman is worth keeping around, but at this point on offense, he's not really a nessessity anymore.

Naismith was right about Revis. Everyone else is a dummy.

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#39 : January 28, 2013, 01:56:03 PM

A 3rd receiver is not a luxury.

a 3rd WR is a luxury imo.

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#40 : January 28, 2013, 02:01:27 PM

We don't know that, but why not hedge our bet.  This team is sorely lacking depth at the #3 position.  Underwood doesn't even belong in the NFL let alone on the field for 40% of any one teams snaps.  Allen can play the slot.  He can do it for the one year or 2.

I totally disagree with every you said after "2 - "... but that's why we have message boards and discussions.  We won't agree on everything.  No biggie.

i dont think we are in a position to hedge bets.  as ive said before, i really dont care about lading depth at #3WR.  i care about lacking depth at #1CB.  i care about lacking depth at #1FS.  i care about lacking depth at #1RT.  i care about lacking depth at #1TE. 

as for disagreeing about 2.  i think we can just agree that you think keenan allen is a Stud, capital S.  i just find it odd that he will be far and away BPA at #13 of the draft. 

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#41 : January 28, 2013, 02:10:41 PM

They need to select a Quarterback.

What a surprise!

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#42 : January 28, 2013, 02:14:40 PM

A 3rd receiver is not a luxury.

a 3rd WR is a luxury imo.

You consider a position that sees the field for 40% of the plays a luxury?  Why?


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#43 : January 28, 2013, 02:41:32 PM

GT, taking a WR in round 1 doesn't preclude finding corners, TEs, safeties, etc.

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#44 : January 28, 2013, 02:43:58 PM

DL or OL every draft
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