JDouble's Offseason Thread

[chace1986]

Sanders is a track guy trying to playing football.

Bailey is a dynamic football player that excels at slot receiver.

Hardly the same thing. One has the smoothest hands of the draft and is ready to step in and play right away, while the other is a kick returner that will likely never be an NFL caliber  receiver. This line of thinking is why we ended up with Dexter Jackson instead of Mario Manningham in 2008. Athlete doesn't equal football player and 40 time doesn't equal greatness on the gridiron....but digress. I know I'm speaking t o a brick wall.

Bailey isn't just a "slot" guy. He can line up outside and plays sort of like Steve Smith...I also see a little of Greg Jennings in him as well. Will he be as good/productive as both of those guys? Dunno...but he will be a playmaker. Not a doubt in my mind.

[JDouble]

I agree Chace. That is why I like him so much. I think he would be the ideal slot guy for us, if there is an injury he can move outside and still be productive.

Also, as far as the idea that guys like Stills and Sanders are better athletes, Bailey had better scores in the 3 cone, shuttle, and vertical jump....so he is actually more explosive than those guys. His 40 was a little slower, but his 10 yard split wasn't. Plus, Bailey has freakishly long arms and big hands for his height where as a guy like Sanders has short arms and the smallest hands at the combine. So not only is Bailey a much better football player that shows toughness, great hands, and ability to play bigger than he is (much like Steve Smith) but he is also the better athlete.

[dalbuc]

If Bailey was a better athlete he'd be considered much much higher. All he does well are what WR's should do well - run routes and catch balls. I think WR is the worst evaluated spot in the NFL and those skills aren't valued enough in the position.

[JDouble]

If Bailey was a better athlete he'd be considered much much higher. All he does well are what WR's should do well - run routes and catch balls. I think WR is the worst evaluated spot in the NFL and those skills aren't valued enough in the position.

I agree 100%. Great hands should be #1 when grading a receiver, getting separation is number two.....but it seems like even the professionals get caught up looking for height/weight/speed guys. Everyone wants the next Megatron or Fitzgerald, so many great receivers get passed over. Conner Vernon for example, probably has the best hands and route running in this draft, but he'll go in the 4th or 5th round because he doesn't have great measurables.

[dalbuc]

If Bailey was a better athlete he'd be considered much much higher. All he does well are what WR's should do well - run routes and catch balls. I think WR is the worst evaluated spot in the NFL and those skills aren't valued enough in the position.

I agree 100%. Great hands should be #1 when grading a receiver, getting separation is number two.....but it seems like even the professionals get caught up looking for height/weight/speed guys.

The "you cant coach speed" line gets rolled out with them more than any spot. Routes then hands is the way I look at guys but it is really more a chicken then egg thing (why get open if you cant catch why be able to catch if you cant get open) with the spot. Being able to get a good route runner out of college is so rare these days it seems. I like his odds of being a contributor as a rookie rather than a project.

[Dolorous Jason]

There is no correlation between dexter jackson and ace sanders.  Dexter jackson is a guy who was all straight line speed coming from a division II school. Ace is a guy who is all quickness and agility,  who is a proven game breaker in the best conference in all of football. Bailey is a 5'9 slot smurf who can't even return kicks. Not a wise pick for us in round 3. If he is there in round 4 and you prefer him over Ace,  maybe we can talk.

[JDouble]

This is all of Bailey's touches from a three game span. I know it looks like a highlight reel, but it's not. It's every touch. Good and bad. How anybody can watch this and still think this guy wouldn't be a steal in the 3rd round is beyond me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci2K1xx6bmQ


Here are two more games....and evidence of why I wouldn't want Gino Smith.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVEGrsxdmvM

[chace1986]

I agree Chace. That is why I like him so much. I think he would be the ideal slot guy for us, if there is an injury he can move outside and still be productive.

Also, as far as the idea that guys like Stills and Sanders are better athletes, Bailey had better scores in the 3 cone, shuttle, and vertical jump....so he is actually more explosive than those guys. His 40 was a little slower, but his 10 yard split wasn't. Plus, Bailey has freakishly long arms and big hands for his height where as a guy like Sanders has short arms and the smallest hands at the combine. So not only is Bailey a much better football player that shows toughness, great hands, and ability to play bigger than he is (much like Steve Smith) but he is also the better athlete.

Yea, he certainly would be the slot guy on this team, but at WVU, he primarily lined up on the outside and as Dal pointed out, he does the two things that you want a WR to do well...run good routes and be sure handed. 4.52 is not a terrible time. If you watch the guy, he plays faster than that # projects. At 5'10" he is actually a little taller than Steve Smith and has the same muscular frame. His weight and height is nearly identical to Randall Cobb and he actually is the same size or bigger than contributing NFL WRs like Lance Moore, Wes Welker, Antonio Brown, Davone Bess, DeSean Jackson, Golden Tate, etc. Funny thing is, when looking at the top 50 WRs in the NFL last year in rec. yards, 22 of the 50 were 6'0 or under. 5'10 is not a bad height in the NFL. Plenty of guys contribute without being 6'4.

Also, lets look at how Bailey's combine #s compare to our very own MW19. Despite being a full 3 inches shorter, Bailey actually had a better vertical at 34.50 as compared to Williams' 33.5 and Bailey bested Williams by 1 inch in the broad jump. Also, Bailey has longer arms and bigger hands, according to both of their combine measurements. Bailey also ran faster times in the 40, Shuttle, and cone drills. How will those numbers transition to the NFL? Who knows? Chances are, Bailey probably won't have the same statistical success that Williams did in his first 3 seasons, but Bailey being 5'10 is hardly a good barometer when attempting to determine how good of player we will or wont be.

[JDouble]

He also tracks and adjusts to the deep ball very well. He makes over the shoulder catches look effortless. Great attributes to have.

[Biggs3535]

I'm a fan of Bailey's as well.  He's a smooth WR, making it look easy.

We'll see how that translates to the NFL.

[Feel Real Good]

If Bailey was a better athlete he'd be considered much much higher. All he does well are what WR's should do well - run routes and catch balls. I think WR is the worst evaluated spot in the NFL and those skills aren't valued enough in the position.

I agree 100%. Great hands should be #1 when grading a receiver, getting separation is number two.....but it seems like even the professionals get caught up looking for height/weight/speed guys.

The "you cant coach speed" line gets rolled out with them more than any spot. Routes then hands is the way I look at guys but it is really more a chicken then egg thing (why get open if you cant catch why be able to catch if you cant get open) with the spot. Being able to get a good route runner out of college is so rare these days it seems. I like his odds of being a contributor as a rookie rather than a project.

The problem is route running is something that can be taught (though not always successfully learned) so raw, athletic players can continue to refine their games in the NFL and then you have a player who is physically talented and technically sound. Too many of they guys who can run routes in college know how to run routes because it's the only way you can get on the field. Once you get them to the NFL they have no upside and don't get any better in the second and third seasons.

[dalbuc]

Yeah I don't much buy that either. People have tried to teach guys to run routes and if they haven't learned one suspects they won't.

[Feel Real Good]

So players don't get better at running routes in the NFL?

[dalbuc]

So players don't get better at running routes in the NFL?

A very small set of them do but most of them either are or are not route runners.

[Biggs3535]

Along with route-running, there's also the function of reading defenses and knowing where to run or sit-down in a defense.  If a guy doesn't know that when he gets out of college, there isn't a whole lot any NFL coach can do about it.