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#30 : January 31, 2013, 10:32:45 AM

I'd offer him a 5 year / $30M deal with the last 2 being team options... breakdown as folllows

2013: $4.25M
2014: $4.75M
2015: $5.50M
2016: $7.00M
2017: $8.50M

That would put him a little under Steve Johnson.  Seems about right to me.

Would you take Stevie Johnson over Williams?

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#31 : January 31, 2013, 10:47:54 AM

I'd offer him a 5 year / $30M deal with the last 2 being team options... breakdown as folllows

2013: $4.25M
2014: $4.75M
2015: $5.50M
2016: $7.00M
2017: $8.50M

That would put him a little under Steve Johnson.  Seems about right to me.

Would you take Stevie Johnson over Williams?

Yes.

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#32 : January 31, 2013, 10:52:22 AM

the same guy who would take colston over jackson

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#33 : January 31, 2013, 11:00:21 AM

the same guy who would take colston over jackson

Yes, because I'm not a biased homer.

Steve Johnson is a better route runner and at getting open.  He's a better target.  Johnson is a #1 WR (low... but still a #1), who on a bad team with a bad QB was able to get over 75 catches and 1,000 yards in the last 3 seasons... the only seasons in which he was a starter.  Mike Williams, after teams figured out how to cover him, was a "nice" player... nothing to brag about (nor bash).  After he got help (Jackson), to eleviate pressure, he had a season similar to his rookie year.

Dude, it's not terrible that players on another team are better than yours... you just don't want every play on the other team to be better.  It's ok to admit that.
: January 31, 2013, 11:16:30 AM TBayXXXVII

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#34 : January 31, 2013, 11:09:30 AM

You mean after we signed a marquee free agent #1 WR, our WR that looked like he may be another draft bust had a very good year?   

I'm fine with Williams or Johnson.   I do not get to see Johnson play enough to really compare.   At least Williams has some rapport with Freeman already

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#35 : January 31, 2013, 11:20:05 AM

You mean after we signed a marquee free agent #1 WR, our WR that looked like he may be another draft bust had a very good year?   

I'm fine with Williams or Johnson.   I do not get to see Johnson play enough to really compare.   At least Williams has some rapport with Freeman already

I'm not debating anything like that.  I simply put out a salary structure that I think is a fair number to offer Williams for an extension.  The numbers are slightly less than Steve Johnson.  I was asked if I'd take Johnson over Williams.  I said yes and gave reasons why.  I'm not saying that Williams isn't good.  I think Johnson is a low-end #1... Williams is a high-end #2, it makes sense that Johnson would make slightly more.  There's no real issue.  I'm fine with Williams, I just don't want the Bucs to over-pay him.

I'll add this... your first sentence justifies my stance on why Johnson is a better receiver than Williams.  Williams needs a guy opposite him to make him better... Johnson doesn't.
: January 31, 2013, 11:21:58 AM TBayXXXVII

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#36 : January 31, 2013, 11:59:52 AM

You mean after we signed a marquee free agent #1 WR, our WR that looked like he may be another draft bust had a very good year?   

I'm fine with Williams or Johnson.   I do not get to see Johnson play enough to really compare.   At least Williams has some rapport with Freeman already

I'm not debating anything like that.  I simply put out a salary structure that I think is a fair number to offer Williams for an extension.  The numbers are slightly less than Steve Johnson.  I was asked if I'd take Johnson over Williams.  I said yes and gave reasons why.  I'm not saying that Williams isn't good.  I think Johnson is a low-end #1... Williams is a high-end #2, it makes sense that Johnson would make slightly more.  There's no real issue.  I'm fine with Williams, I just don't want the Bucs to over-pay him.

I'll add this... your first sentence justifies my stance on why Johnson is a better receiver than Williams.  Williams needs a guy opposite him to make him better... Johnson doesn't.

I'm not debating with you.  Was just pointing out the positive influence a marquee free agent may have on players already on the team.   

Like I said I do not have a preference with one or the other.   My only point would be that Williams is here and in the system while Johnson is not.   I would wonder if some of Johnson's numbers are not inflated due to the team sucking and the need to throw the ball more?

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#37 : January 31, 2013, 01:39:17 PM

Was just pointing out the positive influence a marquee free agent may have on players already on the team.   

Which Free Agent in 2010 had the positive influence on Williams?


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#38 : January 31, 2013, 01:42:26 PM

Are you going to try and say that having VJ was not a positive influence on our offense including Williams?

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#39 : January 31, 2013, 01:45:59 PM

Are you going to try and say that having VJ was not a positive influence on our offense including Williams?

Of course not.

Now, which Free Agent in 2010 had the positive influence on Williams?


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#40 : January 31, 2013, 01:47:52 PM

I'm thinking Trueblood

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#41 : January 31, 2013, 01:50:42 PM

I'm thinking Trueblood

lol, that was my next question.  Which of the Free Agents the Bucs signed in 2011 to over $100M worth of contracts had positive influences on Williams - and the rest of the team?


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#42 : January 31, 2013, 01:56:17 PM

Didn't get my prize for the answering the first quiz question...

I am liking Nicks, Tjax and Clark if you are including him in the spending package

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#43 : January 31, 2013, 02:03:55 PM

I'm thinking Trueblood

 Which of the Free Agents the Bucs signed in 2011 to over $100M worth of contracts had positive influences on Williams - and the rest of the team?

You mean the punter?

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#44 : January 31, 2013, 02:11:40 PM

Those guys hadn't established themselves prior to this year and there are still some questions.   It's been a long time since this team has attacked FA the way they did this past off season.  That is just a fact.  And drafting shouldn't dictate that.

I disagree...not that there's anything wrong with that

What?  You think if we miss on draft picks we shouldn't try to fill needs through FA and go after any impact FAs.   Thank goodness McKay, Dungy, and the Glazers didn't think that way back in the late 90's early 2000's.   And now again in 2012.
Easier said than done. They thought when they made Jeff Faine the highest paid center in NFL history he'd be an impact player. They thought when they traded for Kellen Winslow and made him the highest paid tight end he'd be an impact player. They thought when they franchised Antonio Bryant for $9 million he'd continue to be an impact player he was when he was making less than $1 million. They thought when they made Davin Joseph one of the highest paid guards in NFL history he'd be an impact player. Just because they finally got a real live impact player in Vincent Jackson doesn't mean they weren't trying before. (And let's be careful bestowing too many superlatives on Carl Nicks. I still have faith in him, but as of right now he could just as easily turn out to be a waste like Faine, Winslow, and others.)

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.
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