Does Josh Freeman have a chance to be Elite ?

[1sparkybuc]

I'm convinced the only reason the Bucs missed the playoffs was because our starting CBs and our starting Gs missed most of the season. Not having Clayborn and Bowers didn't help. Upgrade the DBs and a healthy roster will get the Bucs to the playoffs. Freeman will determine how deep they go. Even inconsistent, he's good enough to get them there. He'll break team records he's already set for TDs and yardage because he now has better coaching and talent around him. A second year with the same playbook will help and another year to gel with his weapons. 35 TDs and 4500 yards passing is not beyond his abilities. Also four interceptions in consecutive games will never happen again. He's done six interceptions in a full season. Expecting eight is not unrealistic.

Situations. It's all about situations. He's posted franchise numbers despite some really bad situations. The situation got much better with the arrival of Greg Schiano.

[Biggs3535]

But you seem to have selective memory, buying into this 66,7% chance of getting a similar or even better QB by spending a 1st round pick, instead of drafting the best player for THIS TEAM. Should it be a QB, nice, i have no issue gettting a QB. Indy did not have either, when drafting Luck.

I have absolutely no idea what you are trying say with this gibberish.  I'm not buying into anything regarding drafting a QB.  I have not posted the team should draft a QB.

[BucBalla85]

I'm convinced the only reason the Bucs missed the playoffs was because our starting CBs and our starting Gs missed most of the season. Not having Clayborn and Bowers didn't help. Upgrade the DBs and a healthy roster will get the Bucs to the playoffs. Freeman will determine how deep they go. Even inconsistent, he's good enough to get them there. He'll break team records he's already set for TDs and yardage because he now has better coaching and talent around him. A second year with the same playbook will help and another year to gel with his weapons. 35 TDs and 4500 yards passing is not beyond his abilities. Also four interceptions in consecutive games will never happen again. He's done six interceptions in a full season. Expecting eight is not unrealistic.

Situations. It's all about situations. He's posted franchise numbers despite some really bad situations. The situation got much better with the arrival of Greg Schiano.

I agree that we should expect to see better numbers in year 2. Well better from everybody if the team gets healthy (and stays relatively healthy) and they improve on last years performance. I do think we should see less ints as long as our team is able to keep games pretty close and not let things get out of hand early. When they were healthy last year and at their best, they were able to keep games close. In those games Freeman was pretty smart with the ball. I expect they should be able to do that again with a better knowledge of the system and a full offseason with these coaches. They just gotta win these big games for once. Our fans are getting impatient. They need playoffs this year. It would not be good to miss the playoffs again. Too long of a drought.

[QaZ]

But you seem to have selective memory, buying into this 66,7% chance of getting a similar or even better QB by spending a 1st round pick, instead of drafting the best player for THIS TEAM. Should it be a QB, nice, i have no issue gettting a QB. Indy did not have either, when drafting Luck.

I have absolutely no idea what you are trying say with this gibberish.  I'm not buying into anything regarding drafting a QB.  I have not posted the team should draft a QB.

Cool, if you say so, YOU did not ....and i have not posted we should ignore Freemans bad games.

[Biggs3535]

But you seem to have selective memory, buying into this 66,7% chance of getting a similar or even better QB by spending a 1st round pick, instead of drafting the best player for THIS TEAM. Should it be a QB, nice, i have no issue gettting a QB. Indy did not have either, when drafting Luck.

I have absolutely no idea what you are trying say with this gibberish.  I'm not buying into anything regarding drafting a QB.  I have not posted the team should draft a QB.

Cool, if you say so, YOU did not ....and i have not posted we should ignore Freemans bad games.

Yet, that's what you are doing when don't acknowledge the losing streak with Freeman as QB.  You're being a hypocrite, and I'm not sure how else to put it.

[chace1986]

But you seem to have selective memory, buying into this 66,7% chance of getting a similar or even better QB by spending a 1st round pick, instead of drafting the best player for THIS TEAM. Should it be a QB, nice, i have no issue gettting a QB. Indy did not have either, when drafting Luck.

I have absolutely no idea what you are trying say with this gibberish.  I'm not buying into anything regarding drafting a QB.  I have not posted the team should draft a QB.

Most, if not all, of this dude's posts are gibberish and very difficult to understand. I think english is a secondary language for this person. Maybe this qaz person should type everything in their original language and then whoever is interested in what he has to say, can just throw the post into google translate.

[QaZ]

[
Yet, that's what you are doing when don't acknowledge the losing streak with Freeman as QB.  You're being a hypocrite, and I'm not sure how else to put it.

I did not acknowledge his NINE game losing streak? Interesting. I suffer from selective memory? Interesting.

Still 9 is 3 less than 12, beside 12 still being alive, while Freeman's last game was a WIN.

The hyppcrites are those that say Freeman is not a fiery leader and just acknowledge him barking at his recievers after an incomplete pass as his try to blame other for his own errors. I'm not sure how to say this, but i do not see YOU as one of THOSE hypocrites, because i do not know whether you fell for the same mistake as they did. If you did, feel directly adressed, else do not. Pretty simple.

[Pewter Pirate]

Josh is not elite, and Josh is inconsistently a middle of the pack QB.  I will take middle of the pack QB over the bottom of the pack QB any day.  Middle of the pack QBs are inconsistent, but also win Superbowls (Eli Manning twice in the past few years).  Between Kapernick and Flacco a middle of the pack QB is going to win the Super Bowl this year.

After suffering through years of Jeff Garcia, Brian Griese, Chris Simms, Leftwitch, Gradkowski, etc.... (bottom of the barrel QBs), I am fine with having a middle of the pack QB.  Would I rather have an elite QB, sure I would.  Outside of Brees, Brady, Rogers there are no other elite QBs.  They are rare.  I am not counting rookies at this point (the fall of Freeman and Newton show you cannot rely on rookie performances).  Peyton Manning is no longer elite.  Eli Manning is no different than Freeman, he is a middle of the pack inconsistent QB. 

I am fine with Freeman as our QB unless we find an elite QB in the draft.  I have accepted that.  The excuses of not having the same coordinator and being only 22, 23, 24, 25, etc.. is old.  Freeman is middle of the pack inconsistent.  Elite QB's rarely hit free agency, and there are none in the upcoming draft.  I would rather have Freeman.

[Dolorous Jason]

[The Anti-Java]

Josh is not elite, and Josh is inconsistently a middle of the pack QB.  I will take middle of the pack QB over the bottom of the pack QB any day.  Middle of the pack QBs are inconsistent, but also win Superbowls (Eli Manning twice in the past few years).  Between Kapernick and Flacco a middle of the pack QB is going to win the Super Bowl this year.

After suffering through years of Jeff Garcia, Brian Griese, Chris Simms, Leftwitch, Gradkowski, etc.... (bottom of the barrel QBs), I am fine with having a middle of the pack QB.  Would I rather have an elite QB, sure I would.  Outside of Brees, Brady, Rogers there are no other elite QBs.  They are rare.  I am not counting rookies at this point (the fall of Freeman and Newton show you cannot rely on rookie performances).  Peyton Manning is no longer elite.  Eli Manning is no different than Freeman, he is a middle of the pack inconsistent QB. 

I am fine with Freeman as our QB unless we find an elite QB in the draft.  I have accepted that.  The excuses of not having the same coordinator and being only 22, 23, 24, 25, etc.. is old.  Freeman is middle of the pack inconsistent.  Elite QB's rarely hit free agency, and there are none in the upcoming draft.  I would rather have Freeman.

No offense, but you SHOULD expect more out of him.  He is not some stiff signed off the street. Dude was a #17 pick in the first round.  If your a GM and you miss on draft picks that high, you won't have a job for long.  I think all the excuses are played out now, its time to produce this season, or they will have to swing into plan B, whatever that might be.   I hope he takes the next step, and balls to a high level for every game in 2013.  No one wants him to succeed more than me.

[NotDeadYet]

     Year 2 under Schiano & co will be crucial to Josh's development. Schiano does NOT appear to be a man who will accept mediocrity. Josh will likely get stronger competition this season for his starting job too. And I think new QB coach McNulty will also give Josh a boost.
     Not much more can be done to help his growth. Well, maybe another WR or TE 

[The Anti-Java]

     Year 2 under Schiano & co will be crucial to Josh's development. Schiano does NOT appear to be a man who will accept mediocrity. Josh will likely get stronger competition this season for his starting job too. And I think new QB coach McNulty will also give Josh a boost.
     Not much more can be done to help his growth. Well, maybe another WR or TE 

Sullivan sticking around is a plus too.

[bucinnj]

Josh is not elite, and Josh is inconsistently a middle of the pack QB.  I will take middle of the pack QB over the bottom of the pack QB any day.  Middle of the pack QBs are inconsistent, but also win Superbowls (Eli Manning twice in the past few years).  Between Kapernick and Flacco a middle of the pack QB is going to win the Super Bowl this year.

After suffering through years of Jeff Garcia, Brian Griese, Chris Simms, Leftwitch, Gradkowski, etc.... (bottom of the barrel QBs), I am fine with having a middle of the pack QB.  Would I rather have an elite QB, sure I would.  Outside of Brees, Brady, Rogers there are no other elite QBs.  They are rare.  I am not counting rookies at this point (the fall of Freeman and Newton show you cannot rely on rookie performances).  Peyton Manning is no longer elite.  Eli Manning is no different than Freeman, he is a middle of the pack inconsistent QB. 

I am fine with Freeman as our QB unless we find an elite QB in the draft.  I have accepted that.  The excuses of not having the same coordinator and being only 22, 23, 24, 25, etc.. is old.  Freeman is middle of the pack inconsistent.  Elite QB's rarely hit free agency, and there are none in the upcoming draft.  I would rather have Freeman.

No offense, but you SHOULD expect more out of him.  He is not some stiff signed off the street. Dude was a #17 pick in the first round.  If your a GM and you miss on draft picks that high, you won't have a job for long.  I think all the excuses are played out now, its time to produce this season, or they will have to swing into plan B, whatever that might be.   I hope he takes the next step, and balls to a high level for every game in 2013.  No one wants him to succeed more than me.

Without question!  Now while I agree with the "middle of the pack inconsistent" label, the biggest problem IMO is that the arrow points down not up when he isn't playing "middle of the pack" football.
If he showed consistent signs of being "Elite" then this would be a much less intense debate within the fan base.

I realize that numbers only paint part of the picture but when I think of "Elite" numbers, Freeman's stat lines don't frequently come to mind.

I'd like to see Freeman succeed because he is the QB of my favorite team.  Until recently, I was hopeful.  During this season, I lost faith in his potential.

It would be great to see him throw for 40 plus TD's and 4500 yards.  I just don't see that happening. 

[Pewter Pirate]

Josh is not elite, and Josh is inconsistently a middle of the pack QB.  I will take middle of the pack QB over the bottom of the pack QB any day.  Middle of the pack QBs are inconsistent, but also win Superbowls (Eli Manning twice in the past few years).  Between Kapernick and Flacco a middle of the pack QB is going to win the Super Bowl this year.

After suffering through years of Jeff Garcia, Brian Griese, Chris Simms, Leftwitch, Gradkowski, etc.... (bottom of the barrel QBs), I am fine with having a middle of the pack QB.  Would I rather have an elite QB, sure I would.  Outside of Brees, Brady, Rogers there are no other elite QBs.  They are rare.  I am not counting rookies at this point (the fall of Freeman and Newton show you cannot rely on rookie performances).  Peyton Manning is no longer elite.  Eli Manning is no different than Freeman, he is a middle of the pack inconsistent QB. 

I am fine with Freeman as our QB unless we find an elite QB in the draft.  I have accepted that.  The excuses of not having the same coordinator and being only 22, 23, 24, 25, etc.. is old.  Freeman is middle of the pack inconsistent.  Elite QB's rarely hit free agency, and there are none in the upcoming draft.  I would rather have Freeman.

No offense, but you SHOULD expect more out of him.  He is not some stiff signed off the street. Dude was a #17 pick in the first round.  If your a GM and you miss on draft picks that high, you won't have a job for long.  I think all the excuses are played out now, its time to produce this season, or they will have to swing into plan B, whatever that might be.   I hope he takes the next step, and balls to a high level for every game in 2013.  No one wants him to succeed more than me.

Of course I want better, but he is not elite, and never will be. Every fan wants an elite QB, but there are only 3 of them in the league.   I am more concerned about winning a SB.  Elite QBs are rare was my point.  If I cannot have elite, I am fine with middle of the pack QB.  A lot of middle if the pack QBs win Super Bowls.  I am fine with Freeman at this point

[The Anti-Java]

Josh is not elite, and Josh is inconsistently a middle of the pack QB.  I will take middle of the pack QB over the bottom of the pack QB any day.  Middle of the pack QBs are inconsistent, but also win Superbowls (Eli Manning twice in the past few years).  Between Kapernick and Flacco a middle of the pack QB is going to win the Super Bowl this year.

After suffering through years of Jeff Garcia, Brian Griese, Chris Simms, Leftwitch, Gradkowski, etc.... (bottom of the barrel QBs), I am fine with having a middle of the pack QB.  Would I rather have an elite QB, sure I would.  Outside of Brees, Brady, Rogers there are no other elite QBs.  They are rare.  I am not counting rookies at this point (the fall of Freeman and Newton show you cannot rely on rookie performances).  Peyton Manning is no longer elite.  Eli Manning is no different than Freeman, he is a middle of the pack inconsistent QB. 

I am fine with Freeman as our QB unless we find an elite QB in the draft.  I have accepted that.  The excuses of not having the same coordinator and being only 22, 23, 24, 25, etc.. is old.  Freeman is middle of the pack inconsistent.  Elite QB's rarely hit free agency, and there are none in the upcoming draft.  I would rather have Freeman.

No offense, but you SHOULD expect more out of him.  He is not some stiff signed off the street. Dude was a #17 pick in the first round.  If your a GM and you miss on draft picks that high, you won't have a job for long.  I think all the excuses are played out now, its time to produce this season, or they will have to swing into plan B, whatever that might be.   I hope he takes the next step, and balls to a high level for every game in 2013.  No one wants him to succeed more than me.

Of course I want better, but he is not elite, and never will be. Every fan wants an elite QB, but there are only 3 of them in the league.   I am more concerned about winning a SB.  Elite QBs are rare was my point.  If I cannot have elite, I am fine with middle of the pack QB.  A lot of middle if the pack QBs win Super Bowls.  I am fine with Freeman at this point

I may have misunderstood your meaning of "elite"  and "middle of the pack".   I guess everyone has a different definition of those terms.  But you sayin there are only 3 "elite" QB's in the league explains it.