Penn........"I know what some fans are saying about Josh"

[The Anti-Java]

Huge, huge, season for the big fella coming up.  And I have to think he knows that better than anyone.  I hope he responds.  I hate to think we have to start all over with a new QB.

This past season was HUGE for him... and an opportunity for him to write his own check but he failed miserably. So much so that the Buc brass won't even discuss an extension with him. Yet there are those here that are enamored with meaningless 'records' and take issue with those that can see Free for what he really is. Its craziness.

Maybe it was because he played with Trash since he's been here. Last year was the only year He had a legit #1 target.

Last season he had all the pieces on offense.  The #1 WR, great RB. Experienced TE.   We should of had a wildcard IMO.

[dbucfan]

http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/crusades-timeline.htm  Can't really point out exactly where the anti Freeman Crusade is on its' timeline....

[PassThePigSkin]

Huge, huge, season for the big fella coming up.  And I have to think he knows that better than anyone.  I hope he responds.  I hate to think we have to start all over with a new QB.

This past season was HUGE for him... and an opportunity for him to write his own check but he failed miserably. So much so that the Buc brass won't even discuss an extension with him. Yet there are those here that are enamored with meaningless 'records' and take issue with those that can see Free for what he really is. Its craziness.

Maybe it was because he played with Trash since he's been here. Last year was the only year He had a legit #1 target.

Last season he had all the pieces on offense.  The #1 WR, great RB. Experienced TE.   We should of had a wildcard IMO.

Dougie was still finding his groove. Experienced TE that made plays? Clark was on the Bench most of the season. We could of had a wildcard but the defense stunk it up. At least 3 more games should have been won.

[Redwave]

this seems to be a very comfortable position for some in regards to the most important position on our football team

I propose the same question that caradoc doesn't have the balls to answer. What specific issues did you have with Freeman in the first 13 games of the season?

Firstly, I don't judge him by the first 13.... i judge him on his complete body of work. He's inaccurate. Inconsistant. Lacks touch on intermediate throws. Poor pocket awareness. Still locks on to receivers like a rook. And lacks the mobility of a QB that lost 25 lbs.

Anything else you'd like to know?

he may lack the touch on intermediate throws but makes up for it with an above-average deep ball. which is why i wont rag on him about it because accuracy was never his forte to begin with. i'll agree about locking onto receivers...thats the one thing that angers me the most about him. and the lack of mobility argument i'm not buying because he clearly has the ability, and for whatever reason isn't taking advantage of it...it may be a decision made by coaches, the point is we don't know. unfortunately his unwillingness to run is now contributing to the idea that he has poor pocket awareness...however, all the sacks he avoids are evidence to the contrary.

and IMO expecting a 25 year old to perform consistently on a week-to-week basis at the hardest position on the field is the definition of

For those who believe the long game is a reason to look past the ugly truth, consider this.  One trick pony's are typically shut down early & often by good teams.  You can call that inconsistency if it makes you feel better, but there's more to it than that.  Tell me how great the leap ball approach will look when either Jackson or Williams gets hurt.  Defenses will double the survivor and stack the box.  Won't that be enjoyable to watch..!  Freeman's "poor pocket awareness" should really be "poor awareness", because it begins pre-snap, & isn't limited to plays where the protection beaks down.  BTW a QB's performance is almost entirely independent from the Defense's performance.  Defense get worn down by an offense that keeps them on the field too much. But an offense gets more opportunity to get a rhythm and pad the record passing stats when playing from behind.  Many QB's have looked great w/ lousy Defenses - not true in Tampa.  I don't dislike the guy.  I don't boo him @ games.  But I do see a guy who needs the ole checkup-from-the-neck-up.  He is what he is & I'm hoping he gets better.  Quickly..!

[JC5100]

Last season he had all the pieces on offense.  The #1 WR, great RB. Experienced TE.   We should of had a wildcard IMO.

#9 offense
#29 offense

When your QB has 20 TDs and 4 INTs over a 9 game stretch and you only go 5-4 there's a serious problem with the team, and it's not the QB.

[Dolorous Jason]

Last season he had all the pieces on offense.  The #1 WR, great RB. Experienced TE.   We should of had a wildcard IMO.

#9 offense
#29 offense

When your QB has 20 TDs and 4 INTs over a 9 game stretch and you only go 5-4 there's a serious problem with the team, and it's not the QB.

Good point .

 I think the chicken little's need to take a step back and let next season play out .

[dbucfan]

Too much desire to be right in calling a buccaneer a bust.  IMVHO it has gone beyond evaluation of the player to a need for the last word and that word being negative. 

[big_JLB]

Last season he had all the pieces on offense.  The #1 WR, great RB. Experienced TE.   We should of had a wildcard IMO.

#9 offense
#29 offense

When your QB has 20 TDs and 4 INTs over a 9 game stretch and you only go 5-4 there's a serious problem with the team, and it's not the QB.

/thread

[chace1986]

Last season he had all the pieces on offense.  The #1 WR, great RB. Experienced TE.   We should of had a wildcard IMO.

#9 offense
#29 offense

When your QB has 20 TDs and 4 INTs over a 9 game stretch and you only go 5-4 there's a serious problem with the team, and it's not the QB.

Your cherry picking ability knows no bounds. It's truly a gift.

You can choose to ignore the bad when it comes to Freeman, and while he did play well at times in '12, the dude did falter and played below average down the stretch in weeks 11, 13, 14, 15, and 16....which heavily contributed to them being eliminated.

[BucsGuru]

Chace,

Not only did he finish the season poorly, he started the season just as poorly.  He turned his game up in the second half against the Redskins and went on a roll.  The roll included handing the ball off to a very hot Doug Martin as well. 

In the end, I do wonder how things would have ended up had we played better defense.  Yet, the defense would have been better at times without the offensive struggles.  I think Penn has a point, but I'm not buying it in regards to Freeman.  Get busy proving you belong or get busy finding your place on the bench.

[PassThePigSkin]

Last season he had all the pieces on offense.  The #1 WR, great RB. Experienced TE.   We should of had a wildcard IMO.

#9 offense
#29 offense

When your QB has 20 TDs and 4 INTs over a 9 game stretch and you only go 5-4 there's a serious problem with the team, and it's not the QB.

Good post.

[PassThePigSkin]

Last season he had all the pieces on offense.  The #1 WR, great RB. Experienced TE.   We should of had a wildcard IMO.

#9 offense
#29 offense

When your QB has 20 TDs and 4 INTs over a 9 game stretch and you only go 5-4 there's a serious problem with the team, and it's not the QB.

Your cherry picking ability knows no bounds. It's truly a gift.

You can choose to ignore the bad when it comes to Freeman, and while he did play well at times in '12, the dude did falter and played below average down the stretch in weeks 11, 13, 14, 15, and 16....which heavily contributed to them being eliminated.

Nobody denies that Freeman had bad games, but he also had enough good games to get close to the playoffs if not for the worst Pass defense in the league.

[GameTime]

Nobody denies that Freeman had bad games, but he also had enough good games to get close to the playoffs if not for the worst Pass defense in the league.

but its not just the pass defense.  its the pass defense AND freeman.  the eagles game is a great example imo.  our franchise (and should be) best player does the BARE MINIMUM to win a game so we blame the defense.  really?  the offense started the game with 10 3andouts!  but many just focus that we gave up a late lead.

think of the games that if freeman played better we might have won...dallas, denver, philly, stl.  i wont include the 2nd nola game but 4 int's doesnt help.  heck, even the wash game we scored 6 points in the first half!  and both were barth 50 yarders.

[Benchwarmer#1]

Last season he had all the pieces on offense.  The #1 WR, great RB. Experienced TE.   We should of had a wildcard IMO.

#9 offense
#29 offense

When your QB has 20 TDs and 4 INTs over a 9 game stretch and you only go 5-4 there's a serious problem with the team, and it's not the QB.

Good post.

+1 very good points made by JC.

Idk why people stray away from the defense. Oh my god they were awful, but no, ....gotta go after one of the few other guys who actually put up POSITIVE records.

Pffft, gruden is more to blame for the last few years of sucktitude than freeman is. Freehaters don't think, they find a target and whine about it to no end. The defense lost more games than freeman, and if they cannot see that, I wouldn't be able to discuss football with them (because they are have a hard time understanding the game).

Hellllo, it's a TEAM sport! TEAM! And given the teams in the Superbowl, we can now say that pretty confidently.

Freeman is not in the top five elites of the game (duh), so why does everyone act like he has to be? Freaking nitpickers.

[GameTime]

After bye week through Eagles game
169/263 (64%), 2402 yards, 9.1 ypa (madden numbers), 20 TDs, 4 INTs, 112.7 rating

25, 31, 14, 21, 16, 18, 5, 4, 29.  ppg ranking allowed by the defenses in that span.

against the top 15 defenses he faced, he threw 5 TD's.  4 times def/ST gave the Bucs the ball on the opponents side of the field, and once a screen pass went 70 yards.