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Naismith

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#8355 : May 07, 2013, 11:42:40 PM

This is even assuming Dee is half the replacement he needs to be, which isn't likely. So my post till stands.

Dee doesn't have to replace Revis for it to be a good deal for the Jets, but it's interesting to see how down you are on Milliner. I'm sure if I search, I'll find posts where you doubted he'd be a good NFL CB before the draft. Most people, though, had him as the #1 CB in the draft. You make it sound like they traded Revis for Milliner straight up, which would be fine even if they did, but that's not what happened. Hell, they didn't even use the pick they got from the Bucs for him. The last two third round picks the Bucs had turned into Mason Foster and LaVonte David, but I guess you can just dismiss that pick as being nothing. The last bunch of free agency money the Bucs spent turned into Dashon Goldson, Vincent Jackson and Carl Nicks. But I guess free agency money is nothing. Nope, the only value they got was a first round pick.

There\'s a very real chance the Bucs waive [Revis] before next season. At the very least, it will be a discussion worth having.

Beatles123

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#8356 : May 07, 2013, 11:55:39 PM

They might as well have considering the fact that they didn't upgrade anything they weren't going to already with the pick they had. They picked Dee to replace Revis. Meaning they weren't able to use the extra pick to thier advantage because if that were the case, they would have went with filling a different need on the offense or a sexier pick on D. IMO.

Milliner has just as many injury concerns as revis, except Revis is far more skilled at base value than  Milliner is right now. They downgraded with the first pick and did nothing special with the other one.

This space for rent....*sigh* I trusted you coach.

Naismith

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#8357 : May 08, 2013, 12:02:58 AM

LOL, nothing special with the other one. Okay, quick, without looking it up, tell me what makes their other first round pick "nothing special". You're just saying things because you hope them to be true and have no idea what you're talking about. Is there any scenario where if the Bucs drafted Milliner or their other first round pick, you wouldn't be raving about them?

They traded Revis for a collection of things, none of which happened to be Milliner and the majority of which hasn't been utilized yet.

There\'s a very real chance the Bucs waive [Revis] before next season. At the very least, it will be a discussion worth having.

Beatles123

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#8358 : May 08, 2013, 12:08:45 AM

I say nothing special because they used the pick, to do exactly what they would have if they had ONE. They didn't take advantage of it at all. They didn't use it to upgrade any ADDITIONAL needs. They used the other to fill a hole they themselves created, with a solution  that is half as effective as what they had.

And I NEVER wanted Milliner, so if he has been drafted, yes i would not like it. I was a Trufant guy as far as CB's go in the draft.

You wanna know what Jets fans said at Richardson?

"Meh."

That's not to say he won't be a good player, but for having two picks, they didn't really do anything unexpected.
: May 08, 2013, 12:13:08 AM Beatles123

This space for rent....*sigh* I trusted you coach.

Naismith

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#8359 : May 08, 2013, 12:15:31 AM

They took the top CB and top DT on their board, freeing themselves up to grab a QB in round two. They've gotten younger and now have an additional 14 million in cap space to spend that they wouldn't have had without a trade. Since you know they were taking the same player that they took anyway, if they didn't make the trade, they'd have taken the same DT this year and next year would still have a hole at CB with Revis leaving and not have the additional third.

You are saying "a solution that is half as effective" as if you have anything to back that up. You're also not acknowledging that Revis had one year left, is older, is more expensive yearly than Milliner's entire rookie contract and is returning from a torn ACL.

You're saying they would have been better with Revis for one year, taking the same DT and then addressing CB next year, but without an additional third round pick, as opposed to getting the same DT, getting the top CB in the draft and not having to address CB next year but also having an additional third round pick.

There\'s a very real chance the Bucs waive [Revis] before next season. At the very least, it will be a discussion worth having.

Naismith

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#8360 : May 08, 2013, 12:16:30 AM

That's not to say he won't be a good player, but for having two picks, they didn't really do anything unexpected.

What the hell does "unexpected" have to do with anything? If the Bucs stayed at 13 and drafted Mike Glennon there, that would have been unexpected.

There\'s a very real chance the Bucs waive [Revis] before next season. At the very least, it will be a discussion worth having.

Beatles123

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#8361 : May 08, 2013, 12:47:49 AM

Do I REALLY have to explain to you that by unexpected I mean they were underwhelming?

Milliner is not the answer for replacing Revis. Not at this juncture. he's had multiple injuries ans has more of a mountain to climb to even be half as good as Revis. Younger or not, as it stands now they are downgraded at CB.

Richardson being the number one DT is also a shoddy assesment even if he was number 1 on their board.

Revis, by the way, is 27. Not old at all. We got him in his prime, so I don't see what age has to do with it when Milliner will not even likely be anything to be scared of his entire career as it is now. He's a bigger question mark than

All I'm saying is this draft has left Jets fans unimpressed and uninspired for the most part. If Revis does what he needs to here, based on their draft we have one the trade.

This space for rent....*sigh* I trusted you coach.

Naismith

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#8362 : May 08, 2013, 12:57:47 AM

1. Unexpected and underwhelming are entirely different words, so, yeah, I'm not going to think you mean one when you mean the other. Please tell me what they should have done.

2. Milliner was the #1 rated CB on most people's boards. It is unlikely that he is as good as Revis, but he doesn't need to be as good as Revis. Milliner's injuries aren't a torn ACL. He missed no games from them. Revis missed an entire season.

3. Richardson was obviously their #1 DT on the board since they had the option of all three and took him.

4. 28 when the season starts and making 16 million per year vs 22 when the season starts and 13-million over his entire rookie deal. Dee isn't close to as big of a question mark as Revis because he's not going to be asked to fill the same role and take on the same responsibilities.

5. Again, please post what you think the Jets should have done.

There\'s a very real chance the Bucs waive [Revis] before next season. At the very least, it will be a discussion worth having.

Beatles123

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#8363 : May 08, 2013, 01:31:48 AM

Richardson was not their target at first. All indications were Mingo and Tavon. I find it hard to believe Richardson was the pick. Really, with all the CB depth, they should have went OL. After losing Dustin Keller and the fact that Holms is injured, they should have moved up and took Tavon or Warmack. This is also the opinion of many Jets fans following the draft. Milliner was greeted with moans, with quotes such as "Does Rex care about the offense at all?" and "Once again, Rex chooses a corner." Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just telling you what fans seemed to think. They stuck to the status-que of what Jets fans feared would happen instead of making the most of two picks.

As for Milliner's role, you're nuts if you don't think he'll be asked to fill Revis' shoes in the sense that he's picking up where he left off. he'll ALWAYS be compared to Revis, no matter WHAT he's asked to do. 28 and healthy. Revis can still play for many years yet and have a better remainder of his career than Milliner can his entire career if Miliner isn't as advertised.

This space for rent....*sigh* I trusted you coach.

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#8364 : May 08, 2013, 04:18:46 AM

I LOVE that Beatles is ruffling feathers in this thread (and to re-energize it at that haha). On point though, Milliner is a downgrade from Revis in all accounts. Revis is top 3 (probly #1, but Richard Sherman would argue that) at his position when healthy (which it seems like he will be...As I posted before, "We know knees" <----Thats a Dom quote, when talking about Caddy I believe it was), and probly top 15 in the league overall. That comes with money. Cant hate on him for wanting to squeeze every penny out of his career when it could end tomorrow (average NFL career is 3 years is it not?). DM is a rook, and while he COULD go on to be better than Revis, imo, he wont. Revis is a once in a generation type player. Hes the best corner the league has seen since Primetime, whos one of my favs. I still like the trade (even though I really didnt want to give up the 1) and LOVE the contract. Glad DR is a Buc, and heres hoping to many great years for us.

PS Beats, keep it up. You know I got your back dawg, even if we dont always agree. Youre cool **CENSORED**.
: May 08, 2013, 04:20:27 AM germcanbuc

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Dolorous Jason

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#8365 : May 08, 2013, 07:13:49 AM



You wanna know what Jets fans said at Richardson?

"Meh."


That's pretty much what Kiper and Gruden said also when the pick was made . We'll see.

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

Hate

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#8366 : May 08, 2013, 07:21:01 AM

This is even assuming Dee is half the replacement he needs to be, which isn't likely. So my post till stands.

You're assuming that Revis returns to 100%.....so your post still stands, but stands for what??

-------------------------------------------------------
   

 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

Naismith

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#8367 : May 08, 2013, 08:35:19 AM

Richardson was not their target at first. All indications were Mingo and Tavon. I find it hard to believe Richardson was the pick. Really, with all the CB depth, they should have went OL. After losing Dustin Keller and the fact that Holms is injured, they should have moved up and took Tavon or Warmack. This is also the opinion of many Jets fans following the draft. Milliner was greeted with moans, with quotes such as "Does Rex care about the offense at all?" and "Once again, Rex chooses a corner." Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just telling you what fans seemed to think. They stuck to the status-que of what Jets fans feared would happen instead of making the most of two picks.

As for Milliner's role, you're nuts if you don't think he'll be asked to fill Revis' shoes in the sense that he's picking up where he left off. he'll ALWAYS be compared to Revis, no matter WHAT he's asked to do. 28 and healthy. Revis can still play for many years yet and have a better remainder of his career than Milliner can his entire career if Miliner isn't as advertised.

You're speculating on who their targets were. Regardless, one guy went sixth and the other went eighth, so they didn't have an opportunity to draft either.

You would have them take the fifth offensive lineman off the board in the first rather than the top ranked CB. So would you have them pass on Geno Smith in the second? Or taken the 10th CB off the board in the third? As far as trading up, the Bills weren't trading with them at 8. Do you have any indication another team was looking to move down? And if you move up, again, you've cost the Jets Geno Smith in the second. You didn't need to trade up for Warmack. He was available there and they didn't take him.

Ignoring the fact that you're telling me what all Jet fans think, I'll pretend that it's correct and respond with, "Who cares?" Every fan has guys they want the team to draft or guys they assume will be good, but there's not a single fan on earth who knows as much as the teams do or who researches the players as much as they do.  Forgetting for a moment that we're talking about the Jets fans who are always unhappy with every draft, while I'm sure every team would like for their fans to be excited by their picks, that's far secondary to getting the players they think will help the team the most. The Bucs, for instance, had a draft that underwhelmed many on this forum.

As for Milliner, people can compare him to Revis all they'd like. You say he's "filling Revis' shoes", but he's joining a defense that was #1 against the pass last year and playing opposite a Pro Bowler. He's not replacing Revis. Revis wasn't there to replace last year.

All of this is just noise, though. You don't have any idea how these guys are going to turn out. Neither do I. They did turn an injured, expensive 28-year old CB that had one year on his contract into a starting DT, a third round pick next year, 14 million in cap space and the move gave them the flexibility to take a shot at the most important position in football when they took Geno Smith in round two. This is a slam dunk for a team that's rebuilding.

There\'s a very real chance the Bucs waive [Revis] before next season. At the very least, it will be a discussion worth having.

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#8368 : May 11, 2013, 09:45:43 AM

Richardson was not their target at first. All indications were Mingo and Tavon. I find it hard to believe Richardson was the pick. Really, with all the CB depth, they should have went OL. After losing Dustin Keller and the fact that Holms is injured, they should have moved up and took Tavon or Warmack. This is also the opinion of many Jets fans following the draft. Milliner was greeted with moans, with quotes such as "Does Rex care about the offense at all?" and "Once again, Rex chooses a corner." Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just telling you what fans seemed to think. They stuck to the status-que of what Jets fans feared would happen instead of making the most of two picks.

As for Milliner's role, you're nuts if you don't think he'll be asked to fill Revis' shoes in the sense that he's picking up where he left off. he'll ALWAYS be compared to Revis, no matter WHAT he's asked to do. 28 and healthy. Revis can still play for many years yet and have a better remainder of his career than Milliner can his entire career if Miliner isn't as advertised.

You're speculating on who their targets were. Regardless, one guy went sixth and the other went eighth, so they didn't have an opportunity to draft either.

You would have them take the fifth offensive lineman off the board in the first rather than the top ranked CB. So would you have them pass on Geno Smith in the second? Or taken the 10th CB off the board in the third? As far as trading up, the Bills weren't trading with them at 8. Do you have any indication another team was looking to move down? And if you move up, again, you've cost the Jets Geno Smith in the second. You didn't need to trade up for Warmack. He was available there and they didn't take him.

Ignoring the fact that you're telling me what all Jet fans think, I'll pretend that it's correct and respond with, "Who cares?" Every fan has guys they want the team to draft or guys they assume will be good, but there's not a single fan on earth who knows as much as the teams do or who researches the players as much as they do.  Forgetting for a moment that we're talking about the Jets fans who are always unhappy with every draft, while I'm sure every team would like for their fans to be excited by their picks, that's far secondary to getting the players they think will help the team the most. The Bucs, for instance, had a draft that underwhelmed many on this forum.

As for Milliner, people can compare him to Revis all they'd like. You say he's "filling Revis' shoes", but he's joining a defense that was #1 against the pass last year and playing opposite a Pro Bowler. He's not replacing Revis. Revis wasn't there to replace last year.

All of this is just noise, though. You don't have any idea how these guys are going to turn out. Neither do I. They did turn an injured, expensive 28-year old CB that had one year on his contract into a starting DT, a third round pick next year, 14 million in cap space and the move gave them the flexibility to take a shot at the most important position in football when they took Geno Smith in round two. This is a slam dunk for a team that's rebuilding.

I wouldn't be upset if I was a jets fan at the outcome of the Revis/draft saa. The relationship between he and the jets had gotten toxic so even though they had to cut the cord getting a couple picks is a nice consolation prize.

I unfortunately am going to be rootin for the jets offense the year my boy just signed a 4 year 2.2 million dollar contract with em.

I'm telling you the FB Tommy Bohanon will be a stud in the NFL. Would have liked to see us draft him


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GameTime

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#8369 : May 11, 2013, 10:23:37 AM

the teams are going in different directions, and the trade probably works for both teams.  the jets are moving for the future, the Bucs are moving for now.

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