Your next President?

[VinBucFan]

CBW just try this, "yeah, you're right, create was the wrong word". See how much easier that is?

[CBWx2]

CBW just try this, "yeah, you're right, create was the wrong word". See how much easier that is?

Let's simplify this for the idiot gallery.

cre·ate verb

to cause to come into being, to bring into existence

Markets, as they exist today, came into being, or were brought into existence by the creation of money, laws and legal infrastructure for the enforcement of contracts, roads, bridges, and airports to be used for the transport of goods, etc. Without these things, there would be no modern markets. Therefor, modern markets are the creation of functional government.

The definition of a free market; The production and exchange of goods and services without interference from the government or from monopolies.

The government coins and values money, which is used as the medium of exchange for goods and services. The government provides the technical infrastructure in which goods are transported, or in which people are transported to the place where goods are acquired or services are provided. The government provides the legal infrastructure in which contracts are made and enforced, and which monopolies are prevented from occurring.

 There is no such thing as a modern market absent of these things, except for perhaps bartering markets within a failed state. But we all know, however, that the term "market" is not being used in this instance to represent that kind of market. Therefor, there is no such thing as a free market. Markets are the creation of governments. To argue to the contrary is absurdity in it's purest form.

[VinBucFan]

Haha, okay CBW I know you cant help yourself. Two unrelated people read your original comment exactly the same way, I am guessing its NOT you. ;-).

Now, let me run from the Black Hole as quickly as possible.

[CBWx2]

Haha, okay CBW I know you cant help yourself. Two unrelated people read your original comment exactly the same way, I am guessing its NOT you. ;-).

Now, let me run from the Black Hole as quickly as possible.

Explain to me how modern markets would have sprung into existence without government, Vinny. Lay out your theory for me.

While you're at it, tell me what countries have free markets, Vinny. Can you name one? If such a thing exists, or has ever existed, I'd be interested in seeing an example. Surely, if the free market is not simply a figment of your overactive imagination, you should be able to dredge up at least one example. The challenge has been set.

[John Galt?]

CBW just try this, "yeah, you're right, create was the wrong word". See how much easier that is?

Yes and I'll even give him a better term.

Instead of "create" try "enable". Governments "enable the growth and development of free markets".

For an analogy, calcium doesn't "create" babies, but it does "enable" their healthy growth. Most modern mammals can not grow and survive without calcium, but that doesn't mean that calcium "creates" babies. To argue such is absurd.

[John Galt?]

Had Nikola Tesla been forced to hunt and fish in order to meet his basic needs, I highly doubt he would have had the time or motivation to invent the radio.

So governments "create" markets and Tesla (not Marconi) invented the radio??

So which Congressman or govt bureaucrat invented the light bulb?

[Biggs3535]

[VinBucFan]

Had Nikola Tesla been forced to hunt and fish in order to meet his basic needs, I highly doubt he would have had the time or motivation to invent the radio.

So governments "create" markets and Tesla (not Marconi) invented the radio??

So which Congressman or govt bureaucrat invented the light bulb?

Lol

[CBWx2]

CBW just try this, "yeah, you're right, create was the wrong word". See how much easier that is?

Yes and I'll even give him a better term.

Instead of "create" try "enable". Governments "enable the growth and development of free markets".

For an analogy, calcium doesn't "create" babies, but it does "enable" their healthy growth. Most modern mammals can not grow and survive without calcium, but that doesn't mean that calcium "creates" babies. To argue such is absurd.

What you have there is a false equivalency. Calcium is a mineral that is naturally occurring. The existence of calcium enabled the development of mammals, but calcium existed independent of the existence of mammals.

There is no function or aspect of modern markets that is naturally occurring, therefor, it would stand to reason that markets are the manifestation of an external agent. Bartering existed long before money and contract laws, but modern markets did not, and in fact, would not were it not for these contributions. This is why countries with failed states or weak, ineffectual governments do not have modern market systems, nor are they breading grounds for technological innovation. Instead, they are relegated to an antiquated system of exchange, and often times, an antiquated way of life.

Money, contract laws, etc are not simply enabling the modern market, they define the modern market. They are things that brought the modern market into existence. They are what created the modern market by the very definition of the word create.

Also, by definition, the government can neither enable or create a free market, because in order for a market to be considered free, there can be no government interference.

[VinBucFan]

DBuc -  your thread is doomed now.

CBW is on full Black Hole mode. Man CBW, either you have the most boring life on the planet, you just like to type, or you have the worlds largest and most fragile ego. Any rational person would have never even had this conversation because they just would've said "yeah, I meant government creates a lot of things people need to create markets". Something like that - done. Instead, pages on spin

[John Galt?]

If governments "create" markets then how do black markets exist?? There is a huge market for cocaine in the US, did the Govt. create that??? Marijuana is a multi-billion dollar market, did the govt. create that??

Seems like some goods and services get sold despite the govt. How could they be created by the got.

[CBWx2]

Had Nikola Tesla been forced to hunt and fish in order to meet his basic needs, I highly doubt he would have had the time or motivation to invent the radio.

So governments "create" markets and Tesla (not Marconi) invented the radio??

After emigrating to the U.S. in 1884, Tesla invented the induction coil or Tesla coil, a device essential to sending and receiving radio waves and one the U.S. Patent Office would later say Marconi relied on for his work [source: Britannica].
http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/inventions/who-invented-the-radio.htm

So which Congressman or govt bureaucrat invented the light bulb?

None. Of course, that's neither here nor there, because I never stated that government invented anything. Create and invent do not  mean the same thing.

[VinBucFan]

Had Nikola Tesla been forced to hunt and fish in order to meet his basic needs, I highly doubt he would have had the time or motivation to invent the radio.

So governments "create" markets and Tesla (not Marconi) invented the radio??

After emigrating to the U.S. in 1884, Tesla invented the induction coil or Tesla coil, a device essential to sending and receiving radio waves and one the U.S. Patent Office would later say Marconi relied on for his work [source: Britannica].
http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/inventions/who-invented-the-radio.htm

So which Congressman or govt bureaucrat invented the light bulb?

None. Of course, that's neither here nor there, because I never stated that government invented anything. Create and invent do not  mean the same thing.

Lmao - that depends on what the definition of "is" ... is.

Spin, spin, spin

[CBWx2]

If governments "create" markets then how do black markets exist?? There is a huge market for cocaine in the US, did the Govt. create that??? Marijuana is a multi-billion dollar market, did the govt. create that??

Seems like some goods and services get sold despite the govt. How could they be created by the got.

What do items on the black market get sold for? Calcium?

[CBWx2]

Had Nikola Tesla been forced to hunt and fish in order to meet his basic needs, I highly doubt he would have had the time or motivation to invent the radio.

So governments "create" markets and Tesla (not Marconi) invented the radio??

After emigrating to the U.S. in 1884, Tesla invented the induction coil or Tesla coil, a device essential to sending and receiving radio waves and one the U.S. Patent Office would later say Marconi relied on for his work [source: Britannica].
http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/inventions/who-invented-the-radio.htm

So which Congressman or govt bureaucrat invented the light bulb?

None. Of course, that's neither here nor there, because I never stated that government invented anything. Create and invent do not  mean the same thing.

Lmao - that depends on what the definition of "is" ... is.

Spin, spin, spin

Did you and your wife create your children, or did you invent them, you pathetic, ignorant fool?