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The Anti-Java

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#30 : February 20, 2013, 12:11:33 AM

Why 40? I think a 15 yard dash relates more to football speed on defense.




Actually....they are all timed at 10....20....and 40 yard intervals.


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Lord Jenkins

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#31 : February 20, 2013, 01:16:25 AM

Why 40? I think a 15 yard dash relates more to football speed on defense.




Actually....they are all timed at 10....20....and 40 yard intervals.

Yes but what does "everyone" always talk about? The 40! I suppose I'm asking for a culture change.


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#32 : February 20, 2013, 07:51:47 AM

Why 40? I think a 15 yard dash relates more to football speed on defense.




Actually....they are all timed at 10....20....and 40 yard intervals.

Yes but what does "everyone" always talk about? The 40! I suppose I'm asking for a culture change.

I use to think the 10 yard time was the most useful, but really all that number tells you is how well they perfect the sprinters take off. Still doesn't relay their true explosiveness. That is my biggest problem with the 40 and why I don't take it seriously. The players spend a few months learning how to correctly pose in a sprinters stance, and then take off with proper techniques like keeping their head down and slowly looking up, staying in a perfectly straight line, ect.......and the guys that perfect the sprinters techniques have the best 40 times. When you are talking about times that are judged down to the 100th of a second, correct technique is huge. So all this drill tells me is who did a better job at perfecting sprinters techniques....which has zero to do with football. The fastest guy at the combine will have only an average time if his technique isn't perfect. It's a joke.

On top of that, there are always several different times listed depending where you look. The player crossing the finish line is recorded electronically, but the 40 is still started by hand. A race that is dissected down to 100th of a second....is started by hand. So every time, official or not, is based off the idea that this guys reaction time and thumb movement is exactly the same for every 40? Gimme a break. The whole thing is a joke. You wanna know how fast a guy is, watch his football film.

Some of the positional drills are helpful, as well as the agility drills, and the jumping events shows pure explosiveness......but the 40 is a freaking joke.
: February 20, 2013, 07:53:26 AM JDouble


BucNY

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#33 : February 20, 2013, 09:19:40 AM

But.....but..... jdouble says 40 times don't matter !!

They don't. Your field speed matters, not your 40 time. Those are often different speeds. It's better to just watch how he runs with pads on, holding a football.

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#34 : February 20, 2013, 09:27:46 AM

Wonderlic. Nothing else matters.


MUSCLE_HAMSTER

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#35 : February 20, 2013, 10:01:08 AM

Wonderlic. Nothing else matters.
kind of interested in this new test they're having the kids take along with the Wonderlic


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#36 : February 20, 2013, 12:03:42 PM

Jd, all is not lost on the 40.

As you know, the 40 is more repitition than talent. However, we also need to take into account how they did, because it may show sloppiness or lethargy.

For example, plenty of 300lb plus guys can run a 5 or close 5.5 range. For the most part, it's usually too close to really point that one guy is faster than the other. Because of that, I look at not how fast they ran it, but how they ran it.

Did they take time to learn it? Was the repitions they did before the combine helpful? Did they exicute the 40 in the proper manner for top speed/time? Basically, its asking the question, are they willing to learn to advance themselves and do they have that drive you want all football players to have? Showing a good 40 time, IMO, shows some speed, but mostly what the commitment of the player is to bettering themselves and being able to take/understand instructions.

IMO, there very much is value to the 40. It's just not what everyone wants it to be about.

Naismith was right about Revis. Everyone else is a dummy.

JDouble

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#37 : February 20, 2013, 12:40:10 PM

I personally don't care if a player trains hard for the combine. If I was a GM and a kid told me that he didn't change us work out regiment or do any special training for the combine because he is a football player and not a track and field star... I'd respect him for that. As long as he interviews well and has good film, I'm taking the best football players... Not just the best athletes.


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#38 : February 20, 2013, 03:54:34 PM

From what I've read, our new Director of Scouting may put a higher premium on measurables than many of us fans, so I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up with a fast riser based on combine results.

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#39 : February 20, 2013, 04:55:22 PM

I read he goes by his gut...not measurables. You have a link creamsicle? I can't find the article.


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#40 : February 20, 2013, 07:19:21 PM

You gotta take everything into account , IMO. Measurables and the film.

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

Hate

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#41 : February 20, 2013, 08:02:25 PM

Just yesterday, Dom said he goes by the film.... not what a guy does in shorts and a t-shirt.

-------------------------------------------------------
   

 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

BucDaFackUp

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#42 : February 21, 2013, 10:05:35 PM

...and just to hammer the point home, here's a piece written by Matt Bowen...enjoy:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0221-bears-bowen-chicago--20130221,0,5175957.column

40-yard dash garners attention but not true measure of man
As long as player doesn't run slow at combine, game tape will determine how fast he really plays


Florida defensive back Major Wright runs the 40-yard dash during the 2010 scouting combine. (Scott Boehm/Getty Photo / February 20, 2013)

Matt Bowen
Scouting the Bears
9:35 p.m. CST, February 20, 2013

What did he run?

That's the one question we want answered this week when rookie prospects put their hand down on the line and run the 40-yard dash at the NFL scouting combine in Indianapolis.

Two shots. Two chances. That's all you get.

Forget about the short-shuttle, the vertical jump, broad jump or the three-cone drill. Those are purely sideshows, amateur acts compared to the main attraction: the 40.

Think about this. These kids have played football their entire lives from pee wee to high school and to major college programs around the country. Yet, their prospects largely will be judged and graded based on two speeds measured inside the stale environment of Lucas Oil Stadium.

And everyone will be watching them.

Advice? Warm-up on your own, get a good sweat going and run hard. Real hard. Oh, and try not to pop a hamstring at the 30-yard mark. That's the last thing you need with every coach, general manager and scout in the stadium eagerly holding a stopwatch in their hands.

You think there is some pressure there, some stress? You bet there is.

These prospects will get into a stance and hear the dull sound of their own heartbeat as they explode off the line.

I know I did as a rookie hopeful in 2000 at the combine. Nervous and tense, I dropped my hand on the line at the RCA Dome and got into the stance I had practiced for more than two months. That was a long way from running the veer option as a quarterback at Glenbard West.

Hey, there is money on the line here. Good money. Make no mistake about it. Run a great time and your draft stock could rise. Run slow and, well, its time for scouts to re-evaluate your status.

One NFL assistant coach I talked to yesterday said it best: "You don't have to be fast, but you can't be slow."

But does the 40 really tell us if a guy can play ball at the pro level? Heck no.

The NFL scouts I talk to all say the same thing: Go with the game tape. That is the best tool, the top tool to grading prospects. You get a wide out or defensive back that runs a sub 4.4 40 in Indy? Time to go back to the tape and find out if he plays at that speed.

Does it match up? Or is this a case of a guy that just turned heads with a time posted in a drill and nothing more?

The same can be said for a prospect that runs a slower time than expected. Do you grade him down, drop him off the board? Nah. Check the tape. Maybe he didn't run a 4.4, but he sure does play at a top speed where it counts on the field.

The 40 also is broken up with splits at the 10- and 20-yard marks. That's a key to evaluating the speed of the big boys up front, the explosion (or burst) for a linebacker and the "get off" for that one defensive end everyone drafting in the top 10 wants on their roster next season.

Take former Notre Dame linebacker Manti Te'o. One scout told me he expects Te'o to test well in Indy and run in the 4.65-4.7 range in the 40. Is that fast enough in today's passing league where spread sets are king? I think it is at the middle linebacker position.

But what happens if Te'o runs in the 4.8 range? Ah, the questions will come because the 40-yard dash still sells and creates discussion no matter how much we want to dismiss its value.

I know it's just a number. A static drill. And outside of covering a kick in the NFL, you won't find many players running 40-yards at top speed on Sundays. Even on the deep ball, wide receivers don't usually get a free release nor are defensive backs allowed to start with their hand on a line in shorts.

This isn't track. Its football. Its a game of angles and transitional movements when you really break it down. Players in full gear are asked to stop, start and change direction with a violent burst of speed.

The 40 doesn't measure that. It never will. But I guarantee it is the one drill we all will be talking about once the numbers start to post in Indianapolis.

Twitter @MattBowen41

Special contributor Matt Bowen, who played at Glenbard West and Iowa, spent seven seasons in the NFL as a strong safety.

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#43 : February 21, 2013, 11:16:52 PM

nice article

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

JDouble

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#44 : February 22, 2013, 07:29:25 AM

"This isn't track. Its football. Its a game of angles and transitional movements when you really break it down. Players in full gear are asked to stop, start and change direction with a violent burst of speed.

The 40 doesn't measure that. It never will. But I guarantee it is the one drill we all will be talking about once the numbers start to post in Indianapolis."


+1

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