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chace1986

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#15 : February 21, 2013, 03:03:55 PM

Improvement of:

Knowledge, Execution and Accuracy.  Summarized over his career thus far - the simple fact is he is average.  and Average won't do...   even for the forever QB bereft bucs.

Josh must become a vocal VETERAN leader and back it up on the field...  no excuses. (I believe part of this is on Schiano and Sullivan to endorse this to the team specifically at earliest opportunity.)

I'm a Freeman supporter.   He's our QB for 2013.   My expectations have been lowered since we drafted him, but I have not lost hope.   

Good answer.

I'll +1 that, if ya don't mind.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

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#16 : February 21, 2013, 03:28:06 PM

The 4 QBs I consider elite watched the SB on tv or attended the game as spectators. I think that after Freeman's 2010 QBR of 95, some people set an elite standard for him that is unfair and unreasonable. Odds are, he will never be elite, but that doesn't mean he will never win a league championship. Dan Marino is considered by most to be elite and he never did win one. I believe Freeman can and the pieces are starting to fall into place to make it happen. Without him, I don't think it's possible, at least anytime soon. Josh is the key. He's got the right coach and the team is gaining talent and experience with each passing year. Starting over with a new QB slams shut THIS window of opportunity.

beardmcdoug

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#17 : February 21, 2013, 03:28:53 PM

I really think its as simple as this:

we draft a mid-late round qb for competition no matter what

we make the playoffs, freeman stays, we don't, he's gone

then we look FA qb's if our drafted QB is not ready after riding the pine for a year

But I really do think next year is ride or die with freeman

It's not that simple.

Unless he flat out stinks it up - i'm talking 3-4 ints in the first round of the playoffs... you really think the Bucs would hit the reset button at quarterback? On a guy that has set multiple team records?

Keep in mind that next year's offense is 1 player away from being elite (a TE or slot receiver - either could be had in FA / Draft)

and that we're definitely addressing CB in the FA or draft... and with AC back healthy... our D should be pretty legit

this team is about to snowball into success with all of our "young guys" becoming veterans...

so unless freeman completely implodes, I just don't see where we're going to find anything better for us RIGHT NOW - and no, Russell Wilson and Colin Kap are not a dime a dozen - and we're not about to go shell out a ton of money for a top FA QB (if there are any....) because the rest of the team is about to cost us more and more money

but yes, I agree that he of course needs to improve in the mental game, but with his back up against the wall, and all the time in the world to prepare for the biggest season of his life... I think he'll pull through... and I think we'll end up resigning him whether the fans like it or not...

I was talking about your implication of replacing him. You said if we miss the playoffs then he's gone. Well he had 25/6 in 2010 and we missed the playoffs and was 25/8 this year and the team was 6-7. So how much sense does that make.

Well I think its a matter of circumstance.  We're a different team with more depth and different goals now.  I know the goal is always the SB, but sometimes we've got to be realistic with our goals.  You're right, 25/6 in 2010 and we missed the playoffs - BUT at that point he was only half way through his contract, we had a ton of injuries, and no depth on that squad.  2010 was a cinderella season but we all knew we were going nowhere if we made the playoffs.  Last year was actually somewhat of the same, except we added a ton of talent, but there is always a lag time before everybody gets on the same page.  We also got bit by the injury bug pretty bad too.  But we all knew the playoffs would be a one and done with how we looked down the stretch.

Next year, this team has no excuses and should be seriously thinking about a SB run.  We don't have up-and-down Ra-Ra as coach.  We've gotten rid of all the selfish-minded players (or phased them out).  We've got a solid year's worth of gameplans implemented.  We're having 3 KEY guys coming back from injury.  Everybody is a year older and more experienced, which is important given that 90% of our defense is >25 y.o.  Next year isn't about show off statistics, its not about creating a future foundation with our FA's and rookies, its about winning right now.  And if Freeman doesn't do that in his no-excuses contract year? then its time to move on... forcibly.  I just don't see this fanbase putting up with another 4-5 years of freeman after another playoff-less year.


McCoy93

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#18 : February 21, 2013, 03:35:24 PM

What bothers me more than Freeman's accuracy is his inconsistency. I hate how he teases us with elite play for a couple of weeks and the next two weeks he looks like he shouldn't even be on the field. To be honest i'd rather have Josh Freeman play from average to above average for all 16 games than him having these spurts of greatness and ineptness

JC5100

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#19 : February 21, 2013, 03:43:02 PM

I really think its as simple as this:

we draft a mid-late round qb for competition no matter what

we make the playoffs, freeman stays, we don't, he's gone

then we look FA qb's if our drafted QB is not ready after riding the pine for a year

But I really do think next year is ride or die with freeman

It's not that simple.

Unless he flat out stinks it up - i'm talking 3-4 ints in the first round of the playoffs... you really think the Bucs would hit the reset button at quarterback? On a guy that has set multiple team records?

Keep in mind that next year's offense is 1 player away from being elite (a TE or slot receiver - either could be had in FA / Draft)

and that we're definitely addressing CB in the FA or draft... and with AC back healthy... our D should be pretty legit

this team is about to snowball into success with all of our "young guys" becoming veterans...

so unless freeman completely implodes, I just don't see where we're going to find anything better for us RIGHT NOW - and no, Russell Wilson and Colin Kap are not a dime a dozen - and we're not about to go shell out a ton of money for a top FA QB (if there are any....) because the rest of the team is about to cost us more and more money

but yes, I agree that he of course needs to improve in the mental game, but with his back up against the wall, and all the time in the world to prepare for the biggest season of his life... I think he'll pull through... and I think we'll end up resigning him whether the fans like it or not...

I was talking about your implication of replacing him. You said if we miss the playoffs then he's gone. Well he had 25/6 in 2010 and we missed the playoffs and was 25/8 this year and the team was 6-7. So how much sense does that make.

Well I think its a matter of circumstance.  We're a different team with more depth and different goals now.  I know the goal is always the SB, but sometimes we've got to be realistic with our goals.  You're right, 25/6 in 2010 and we missed the playoffs - BUT at that point he was only half way through his contract, we had a ton of injuries, and no depth on that squad.  2010 was a cinderella season but we all knew we were going nowhere if we made the playoffs.  Last year was actually somewhat of the same, except we added a ton of talent, but there is always a lag time before everybody gets on the same page.  We also got bit by the injury bug pretty bad too.  But we all knew the playoffs would be a one and done with how we looked down the stretch.

Next year, this team has no excuses and should be seriously thinking about a SB run.  We don't have up-and-down Ra-Ra as coach.  We've gotten rid of all the selfish-minded players (or phased them out).  We've got a solid year's worth of gameplans implemented.  We're having 3 KEY guys coming back from injury.  Everybody is a year older and more experienced, which is important given that 90% of our defense is >25 y.o.  Next year isn't about show off statistics, its not about creating a future foundation with our FA's and rookies, its about winning right now.  And if Freeman doesn't do that in his no-excuses contract year? then its time to move on... forcibly.  I just don't see this fanbase putting up with another 4-5 years of freeman after another playoff-less year.

What's different about the defense? We had the #9 offense and #29 defense. The way people lump Freeman and playoffs together make it seem like we had the #9 defense and #29 offense.

BucBalla85

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#20 : February 21, 2013, 03:59:43 PM

What bothers me more than Freeman's accuracy is his inconsistency. I hate how he teases us with elite play for a couple of weeks and the next two weeks he looks like he shouldn't even be on the field. To be honest i'd rather have Josh Freeman play from average to above average for all 16 games than him having these spurts of greatness and ineptness

Well at least he does have spurts of greatness. That means he "should" be able to do it again. Keyword "should".

Sweep

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#21 : February 21, 2013, 03:59:44 PM

The 4 QBs I consider elite watched the SB on tv or attended the game as spectators. I think that after Freeman's 2010 QBR of 95, some people set an elite standard for him that is unfair and unreasonable. Odds are, he will never be elite, but that doesn't mean he will never win a league championship. Dan Marino is considered by most to be elite and he never did win one.

I totally agree.

 
Without him, I don't think it's possible, at least anytime soon. Josh is the key.

Respectfully, disagree.  Josh is a key.  QB always is.  But in our offense I don't think he is THE key.  I would argue Vincent Jackson and the running game are the biggest keys.  Just my opinion.

  He's got the right coach and the team is gaining talent and experience with each passing year. Starting over with a new QB slams shut THIS window of opportunity.

Agree on the right coach and gaining talent.  Disagree that a new QB "slams shut" the window of opportunity.   An aging Vincent Jackson would shut the window of opportunity.

Its going to look to some people like a different play every time we use it, but pretty soon theyll be able to recognize it....by watching the official for the first-down signal.   -Vincent T. Lombardi

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#22 : February 21, 2013, 04:02:54 PM

He's going to say that of course, but no extension speaks louder than words. Freeman has this year to prove himself.


BucBalla85

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#23 : February 21, 2013, 04:38:36 PM

He's going to say that of course, but no extension speaks louder than words. Freeman has this year to prove himself.

Yea he really cant afford to come out and play like he did in the tail end of last season. If he does its an easy decision to move on and find somebody new. That wasnt good enough. It doesnt matter who was playing on D. He played like poo the last quarter. Biggest reason I feel he has a majority of doubters. Its what he has done lately. Now had he had that bad play happen earlier and had greater play later we would be talking a little differently. My point is he needs to come out swinging this season or we will have more doubt with fans but more importantly with the team.

1sparkybuc

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#24 : February 22, 2013, 02:08:04 AM

I really think its as simple as this:

we draft a mid-late round qb for competition no matter what

we make the playoffs, freeman stays, we don't, he's gone

then we look FA qb's if our drafted QB is not ready after riding the pine for a year

But I really do think next year is ride or die with freeman

It's not that simple.

Unless he flat out stinks it up - i'm talking 3-4 ints in the first round of the playoffs... you really think the Bucs would hit the reset button at quarterback? On a guy that has set multiple team records?

Keep in mind that next year's offense is 1 player away from being elite (a TE or slot receiver - either could be had in FA / Draft)

and that we're definitely addressing CB in the FA or draft... and with AC back healthy... our D should be pretty legit

this team is about to snowball into success with all of our "young guys" becoming veterans...

so unless freeman completely implodes, I just don't see where we're going to find anything better for us RIGHT NOW - and no, Russell Wilson and Colin Kap are not a dime a dozen - and we're not about to go shell out a ton of money for a top FA QB (if there are any....) because the rest of the team is about to cost us more and more money

but yes, I agree that he of course needs to improve in the mental game, but with his back up against the wall, and all the time in the world to prepare for the biggest season of his life... I think he'll pull through... and I think we'll end up resigning him whether the fans like it or not...

I was talking about your implication of replacing him. You said if we miss the playoffs then he's gone. Well he had 25/6 in 2010 and we missed the playoffs and was 25/8 this year and the team was 6-7. So how much sense does that make.

Well I think its a matter of circumstance.  We're a different team with more depth and different goals now.  I know the goal is always the SB, but sometimes we've got to be realistic with our goals.  You're right, 25/6 in 2010 and we missed the playoffs - BUT at that point he was only half way through his contract, we had a ton of injuries, and no depth on that squad.  2010 was a cinderella season but we all knew we were going nowhere if we made the playoffs.  Last year was actually somewhat of the same, except we added a ton of talent, but there is always a lag time before everybody gets on the same page.  We also got bit by the injury bug pretty bad too.  But we all knew the playoffs would be a one and done with how we looked down the stretch.

Next year, this team has no excuses and should be seriously thinking about a SB run.  We don't have up-and-down Ra-Ra as coach.  We've gotten rid of all the selfish-minded players (or phased them out).  We've got a solid year's worth of gameplans implemented.  We're having 3 KEY guys coming back from injury.  Everybody is a year older and more experienced, which is important given that 90% of our defense is >25 y.o.  Next year isn't about show off statistics, its not about creating a future foundation with our FA's and rookies, its about winning right now.  And if Freeman doesn't do that in his no-excuses contract year? then its time to move on... forcibly.  I just don't see this fanbase putting up with another 4-5 years of freeman after another playoff-less year.

What's different about the defense? We had the #9 offense and #29 defense. The way people lump Freeman and playoffs together make it seem like we had the #9 defense and #29 offense.

Don't try to confuse the issue with facts, and please don't mention that Drew Brees finished with an identical record also with a poor defense.

1sparkybuc

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#25 : February 22, 2013, 02:30:43 AM

The 4 QBs I consider elite watched the SB on tv or attended the game as spectators. I think that after Freeman's 2010 QBR of 95, some people set an elite standard for him that is unfair and unreasonable. Odds are, he will never be elite, but that doesn't mean he will never win a league championship. Dan Marino is considered by most to be elite and he never did win one.

I totally agree.

 
Without him, I don't think it's possible, at least anytime soon. Josh is the key.

Respectfully, disagree.  Josh is a key.  QB always is.  But in our offense I don't think he is THE key.  I would argue Vincent Jackson and the running game are the biggest keys.  Just my opinion.

  He's got the right coach and the team is gaining talent and experience with each passing year. Starting over with a new QB slams shut THIS window of opportunity.

Agree on the right coach and gaining talent.  Disagree that a new QB "slams shut" the window of opportunity.   An aging Vincent Jackson would shut the window of opportunity.

The Bucs' playbook has been described as complicated and not QB friendly. It requires a read and adjust according to the last second position of the defense. The QB and the receivers have to see the same thing and be on the same page. It takes time to gel for veteran players, forget about the vast majority of rookies. VJax has several more productive years ahead of him WITH Josh Freeman. Starting over from scratch with some rookie would cut that in half. We've got a nice blend of talent on this offense right now. Hopefully it's not wasted.

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#26 : February 22, 2013, 07:23:32 AM


The Bucs' playbook has been described as complicated and not QB friendly.

When has this been said?


dalbuc

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#27 : February 22, 2013, 08:00:38 AM

He's going to say that of course, but no extension speaks louder than words. Freeman has this year to prove himself.

Exactly, if he's the man then where is the contract to enure you keep "the man".

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

JC5100

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#28 : February 22, 2013, 08:07:38 AM

He's going to say that of course, but no extension speaks louder than words. Freeman has this year to prove himself.

Exactly, if he's the man then where is the contract to enure you keep "the man".

You mean like the game Baltimore tried to play with Flacco last year. Probably cost themselves $50M.

JDouble

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#29 : February 22, 2013, 08:57:15 AM

He's going to say that of course, but no extension speaks louder than words. Freeman has this year to prove himself.

Exactly, if he's the man then where is the contract to enure you keep "the man".

You mean like the game Baltimore tried to play with Flacco last year. Probably cost themselves $50M.


Better to pay a premium price for a proven QB than pay a slightly less amount for a garbage QB.

It's easy to say the Ravens should have sign Flacco earlier, after the fact, but the reality is you need a QB to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is in fact "The man" before you give him a gigantic long term contract that will effect your franchise for the next decade. History shows that when you get it wrong, your entire franchise pays a heavy price for a very long time. So it is probably worth that extra $30M spread out of 5 or 6 years to wait and make sure he is the real deal.

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