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bizkitlimped

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#15 : March 01, 2013, 04:45:36 PM

Sanchez 52
Fitzpatrick 47
Rivers 47
Freeman 46
Stafford 38

What do Interceptions from 2010 to now look like?



Freeman 45
Sanchez 49
Stafford 34
Fitzpatrick 54
Rivers 48


chace1986

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#16 : March 01, 2013, 06:44:02 PM

If Freeman only had a decent defense backing him up, that # would be 1/4 of what it is....

legit point that Freeman haters wont acknowledge. if we arent getting majorly behind, he doesnt throw as much and theres far fewer obvious passing situations for opposing defenses to take advantage of. qbs depend on good defenses to open up the playbook and stay balanced. very few teams can be successful without running the ball and having a bad defense. only the packers, patriots, and saints can compete with a weak defense and bad running game.

If Freeman only had a decent defense backing him up, that # would be 1/4 of what it is....

Yeah, having a terrible defense the last 2 years and falling behind very quickly, especially in 2011, certainly would put more pressure on a QB to push the ball down the field and make plays to keep up. No the two are 100% separate of each other.

Imagine what this forum would be saying if Freeman checked the ball down on 3rd and 12 down by 21 because nothing was open down field? We'd be hearing people screaming that he isn't even trying. LOLZ at people on this board. So fickle, like a woman.

BucNY and Dex. To be honest, I was being facetious with that post.

If I am reading your posts correctly, you are saying that the defense DID actually have a role in his high TO rate...maybe not solely to blame....but there is blame there on the D.
I don't 100% disagree, but I do feel that Freeman's TOs hurt the defenses chances of holding the opposing offenses just as much as the defense hurt Freeman and the offense's chances of having a balanced attack.

Let's explore all of the TOs mentioned, shall we?

First off, lets separate the Freeman turnovers that occurred when the game was tied or the Bucs were ahead. 12 turnovers. These 12 do not fit into the "they only happened because we were down/in desperation mode" argument.

Now lets go turnover by turnover.
Week 2 2011 - Down 17-7 Freeman throws an INT at Minnesota's 12 with 7:38 left in 3rd. Yes we were down, but the gameplan was still intact, this was just a dumb redzone throw. Period.
Week 5 2011 - Down 7-3 Freeman throws a pick 6 to Carlos Rogers on the first play of the 2nd qtr. Once again, we were down, but only by  4 points and it was just the Bucs 3rd drive. Argument doesn't apply here either.  
Week 5 2011 - Down 14-3 Freeman throws another pick with 10:29 left in 2nd. This one is questionable , I'll admit. Seemed as if we were going to have to keep up with them, but it was still early in the 2nd. I'll concede this one.
Week 7 2011 - Down 7-0 Freeman throws a redzone INT in the 1st qtr. Nope.
Week 7 2011 - Down 21-5, Freeman throws 2 INTs..one was early in the 3rd qtr and one was early in the 4th qtr at CHI 14. Questionable. Freeman was forcing balls all day and his accuracy was poor. The fact that he threw 3 INTs and the Bucs still had a shot at the end means that the D did a decent job keeping them in it. I'll concede one of these 2 picks to "the argument" lol
Week 7 2011 - Down 24-18 Freeman throws an INT to seal the game. Yes, this was desperation mode. Had to throw. Team loss, not just Freeman, and not just defense.
Week 10 2011 - Freeman throws 3 INTs in the 2nd half of the blowout loss to HOU. Freeman didn't play well, but these INTs do fit into "the argument".
Week 11 2011 - Freeman throws 2 second half INTs vs the Packers. The Bucs D could not stop the Packers when they needed to and the offense did have to go one dimensional. Fair enough, on those two.
Week 12 2011 - Fumble by Freeman w/ 9:53 left in 2nd. Nope.
Week 12 2011 - Down 20-17 Freeman throws INT w/ 5:01 left in 4th. Close game, Freeman didn't exactly step up, but that were down at the end. Toss up...I've conceded enough..so I'll take this one..lol 
Week 14 2011 - Down 21-14 Freeman throws INT w/1:53 left in 2nd. Nope.
Week 14 2011 - Down 28-14 Freeman throws INT w/ 11:30 left in 3rd. Gameplan wasn't in the toilet, but they were down by two scores in the 2nd half. Concede that one.
Week 15 2011 - Down 7-0 Freeman fumbles with 10:07 left in the 1st. Nope.
Week 16 2011 - Down 20-10 Freeman throws INT  w/ 13:27 left in the 3rd. Nope.
Week 17 2011 - Freeman has 4 TOs in the blowout loss. All four fit into "argument".
Week 2 2012 - Freeman throws INT w/ .05 sec left in game. Yes, this fits
Week 4 2012 - Down 7-3 Freeman throws INT with 11:09 left in 2nd. Nope.
Week 11 2012 - Down 14-7 Freeman throws and INT with 12:29 left in the 3rd. Nope.
Week 13 2012 - Down 21-10 Freeman throws the pick 6 to Von Miller. Sure, this fits.
Week 15 2012 - Down 7-0 Freeman throws a pick with 4:06 left in the first in NO redzone Nope. Even though this game ended up beign a blow out...this pick happened too early to use anyone else as a scapegoat.
Week 15 2012 - Down 10-0 Freeman throws a pick at the NO 26 with 10:28 left in the second. Once again, game was definitely not out of hand.
Week 15 2012 - Next 3 TOs came when the game was out of hand. Yup
Week 16 2012 - Down 7-6 Freeman gets picked with 4:54 left in the 2nd. Nope.
Week 16 2012 - Next two picks came when we were down 21-6. Sure

If looked at objectively(which I tried hard to do), you should be able to see that there were definitely picks that came as a result of "having" to throw to catch up or stay with the competition...but most of the picks do not fall into this category.

By my count:
TOs that came as a result of needing to throw because the opponent was way ahead or scoring very rapidly: 21
TOs that don't fall into that category: 25


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

MUSCLE_HAMSTER

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#17 : March 01, 2013, 07:01:41 PM

This simple list lets me know that football is still a TEAM sport.Some of the freeman haters should take note.

The 49ers don't care who their QB is, they can stand with or without because they now have a solid group on both sides.

Give Jf a sanfran defense and he'll look better too. Or Baltimore for that matter. They are not elite QB's.
wat


XFactor

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#18 : March 01, 2013, 07:47:48 PM

If Freeman only had a decent defense backing him up, that # would be 1/4 of what it is....

legit point that Freeman haters wont acknowledge. if we arent getting majorly behind, he doesnt throw as much and theres far fewer obvious passing situations for opposing defenses to take advantage of. qbs depend on good defenses to open up the playbook and stay balanced. very few teams can be successful without running the ball and having a bad defense. only the packers, patriots, and saints can compete with a weak defense and bad running game.

If Freeman only had a decent defense backing him up, that # would be 1/4 of what it is....

Yeah, having a terrible defense the last 2 years and falling behind very quickly, especially in 2011, certainly would put more pressure on a QB to push the ball down the field and make plays to keep up. No the two are 100% separate of each other.

Imagine what this forum would be saying if Freeman checked the ball down on 3rd and 12 down by 21 because nothing was open down field? We'd be hearing people screaming that he isn't even trying. LOLZ at people on this board. So fickle, like a woman.



If looked at objectively(which I tried hard to do), you should be able to see that there were definitely picks that came as a result of "having" to throw to catch up or stay with the competition...but most of the picks do not fall into this category.

By my count:
TOs that came as a result of needing to throw because the opponent was way ahead or scoring very rapidly: 21
TOs that don't fall into that category: 25

So that is about 12 TO's a season that is his fault, I can live with that.


chace1986

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#19 : March 01, 2013, 08:07:04 PM

Well, to a degree, they are all his fault. I didn't say he was blameless in the other 21 turnovers.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

XFactor

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#20 : March 01, 2013, 08:17:13 PM

Well, to a degree, they are all his fault. I didn't say he was blameless in the other 21 turnovers.

True. There is a lot of other factors that probably need to be considered but whatever, he has thrown way to many int's period. I look at it as 2011 was a cluster f*ck. Can we name anybody from that season that was good? 2012 he turned into a int machine at the end of the season. I think it gets better with another year in the offense, if not we move on.


dexmonkey

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#21 : March 01, 2013, 09:36:18 PM

Well, to a degree, they are all his fault. I didn't say he was blameless in the other 21 turnovers.

True. There is a lot of other factors that probably need to be considered but whatever, he has thrown way to many int's period. I look at it as 2011 was a cluster f*ck. Can we name anybody from that season that was good? 2012 he turned into a int machine at the end of the season. I think it gets better with another year in the offense, if not we move on.

2011 was an unmitigated disaster across the board. every single player gets an F in my book for that season. blame is shared by all

Oracle

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#22 : March 01, 2013, 09:45:10 PM

Well, to a degree, they are all his fault. I didn't say he was blameless in the other 21 turnovers.

True. There is a lot of other factors that probably need to be considered but whatever, he has thrown way to many int's period. I look at it as 2011 was a cluster f*ck. Can we name anybody from that season that was good? 2012 he turned into a int machine at the end of the season. I think it gets better with another year in the offense, if not we move on.

2011 was an unmitigated disaster across the board. every single player gets an F in my book for that season. blame is shared by all

That's what happens when you have a buffoon head coach that none of the players respect and a starting QB with no leadership skills.


XFactor

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#23 : March 01, 2013, 10:23:28 PM

Well, to a degree, they are all his fault. I didn't say he was blameless in the other 21 turnovers.

True. There is a lot of other factors that probably need to be considered but whatever, he has thrown way to many int's period. I look at it as 2011 was a cluster f*ck. Can we name anybody from that season that was good? 2012 he turned into a int machine at the end of the season. I think it gets better with another year in the offense, if not we move on.

2011 was an unmitigated disaster across the board. every single player gets an F in my book for that season. blame is shared by all

That's what happens when you have a buffoon head coach that none of the players respect and a starting QB with no leadership skills.



And the worst defense in Buccaneers history, can't leave them out.
: March 01, 2013, 10:27:35 PM XFactor


warrenfb12

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#24 : March 05, 2013, 12:28:51 PM

Sanchez 52
Fitzpatrick 47
Rivers 47
Freeman 46
Stafford 38

What do Interceptions from 2010 to now look like?



Freeman 45
Sanchez 49
Stafford 34
Fitzpatrick 54
Rivers 48

Huh? Freeman had one less interception when you include the 2010 season?

Freeman's career TD=76 Career INT=54.

Freeman's TD from 2010 to now =68      INT from 2010 to now=45.

Sanchez career TD=68 Career INT=69

Not a great comparison.
 
: March 05, 2013, 12:31:14 PM warrenfb12

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