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TBTrojan

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#30 : March 05, 2013, 02:37:18 PM

During the 5-1 stretch last season, Freeman was the highest rated QB in the league. You can't just ignore that without revealing your bias.
It's not a case of ignoring it, it's more a case of "5 games, wow, that sure helps during a 16 game season, what about the other 11?"
I guess if you were a Bills fan you would be loving it with Fitzpatrick and thinking he deserves the big money contract based on a handful of good games he put together, no need to upgrade.
Christian Ponder managed to string together a great start to last season, most wouldn't try to make a case for him being anything but below average.
If Josh had 2 good years and 1 bad, and had 11 good games with just 5 bad last year it might mean something but it's the reverse of that.
He's an average at best QB that sometimes goes on fluke hot streaks which for some strange reason seem to coincide with our running game exploding.
He's had 3.5 years of starts and still makes the same glaring errors that were in the weakness column of his scouting report, he is what he is and that isn't going to change.

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#31 : March 05, 2013, 05:31:35 PM

During the 5-1 stretch last season, Freeman was the highest rated QB in the league. You can't just ignore that without revealing your bias.
It's not a case of ignoring it, it's more a case of "5 games, wow, that sure helps during a 16 game season, what about the other 11?"
I guess if you were a Bills fan you would be loving it with Fitzpatrick and thinking he deserves the big money contract based on a handful of good games he put together, no need to upgrade.
Christian Ponder managed to string together a great start to last season, most wouldn't try to make a case for him being anything but below average.
If Josh had 2 good years and 1 bad, and had 11 good games with just 5 bad last year it might mean something but it's the reverse of that.
He's an average at best QB that sometimes goes on fluke hot streaks which for some strange reason seem to coincide with our running game exploding.
He's had 3.5 years of starts and still makes the same glaring errors that were in the weakness column of his scouting report, he is what he is and that isn't going to change.

Yes it is. Conceding 11 bad games (not accurate) the Bucs set a franchise record for points scored. They're a lock to improve on that in 2013 with better protection and added weapons. Fix the pass defense and they're a playoff team. Freeman has had one season with a decent offense around him and decent coaching. He will be just fine in 2013 if not elite. By my count there are four elite QBs in the league. Freeman may never be elite. So what? Neither was Brad Johnson.

TBTrojan

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#32 : March 05, 2013, 05:58:55 PM

During the 5-1 stretch last season, Freeman was the highest rated QB in the league. You can't just ignore that without revealing your bias.
It's not a case of ignoring it, it's more a case of "5 games, wow, that sure helps during a 16 game season, what about the other 11?"
I guess if you were a Bills fan you would be loving it with Fitzpatrick and thinking he deserves the big money contract based on a handful of good games he put together, no need to upgrade.
Christian Ponder managed to string together a great start to last season, most wouldn't try to make a case for him being anything but below average.
If Josh had 2 good years and 1 bad, and had 11 good games with just 5 bad last year it might mean something but it's the reverse of that.
He's an average at best QB that sometimes goes on fluke hot streaks which for some strange reason seem to coincide with our running game exploding.
He's had 3.5 years of starts and still makes the same glaring errors that were in the weakness column of his scouting report, he is what he is and that isn't going to change.

Yes it is. Conceding 11 bad games (not accurate) the Bucs set a franchise record for points scored. They're a lock to improve on that in 2013 with better protection and added weapons. Fix the pass defense and they're a playoff team. Freeman has had one season with a decent offense around him and decent coaching. He will be just fine in 2013 if not elite. By my count there are four elite QBs in the league. Freeman may never be elite. So what? Neither was Brad Johnson.
I'm sorry but this whole "set franchise records" thing for defending Josh is getting so old that it's no longer laughable.
It's not like those were impressive records to start with, throw in that he has the best supporting cast (by far) of any Bucs QB ever & the new "defense on the field, 15 yards, automatic first down" rules of the league and he should be breaking records because offensive records have been rendered meaningless.
I mean they broke the franchise record by finishing 13th in the league, that's not impressive, it's pathetic.
We hear all about how the Ravens D carried them and Flacco/their offense sucks yet they scored more than us, hell the Vikes with Christian Ponder were only 1 spot lower.

GameTime

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#33 : March 05, 2013, 07:51:36 PM

i really do think freeman and flacco are equals.  i just really hope that barron turns out to be ed reed, david turns out to be ray lewis, and mccoy is haloti ngata.

that said, id have never broke the bank for flacco.  he's an average play from rahim moore from being the same guy that cant get over the hump.  now he's gotta be "the guy" without as many weapons and without ray lewis?  ouch.
: March 05, 2013, 07:53:07 PM GameTime

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jerseybucsfan

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#34 : March 06, 2013, 02:00:47 AM

i really do think freeman and flacco are equals.  i just really hope that barron turns out to be ed reed, david turns out to be ray lewis, and mccoy is haloti ngata.

that said, id have never broke the bank for flacco.  he's an average play from rahim moore from being the same guy that cant get over the hump.  now he's gotta be "the guy" without as many weapons and without ray lewis?  ouch.
Really? A guy who has played that well in big games over the last three years vs. Freeman? Equal?
Wow. The Ravens had an average defense last year. Flacco had a monster postseason. Josh has had two big months in four years.

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#35 : March 06, 2013, 02:12:10 AM

Flacco outplayed Tom Brady in the 2011 Championship game. When has Freeman ever come close to that? Flacco isn't elite, and he got way more than he is worth....but he has really played well for the last two seasons. He and Freeman are light years apart. It's sad that some Buc fans don't realize that.

Perfectly sums things up.

The Ravens did the exact same thing with Flacco last year that the Bucs are doing with Freeman this year. They weren't confident enough to go ahead and give him an extension.

Wrong. The Ravens offered him an extension prior to the 2012 season, and Flacco declined.
: March 06, 2013, 02:15:16 AM chace1986


Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.

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#36 : March 06, 2013, 02:17:53 AM

Flacco has made some big time throws against quality opponents on the road when the stakes are high. Its possible the ravens could have made back to back SB appearances if it weren't for Lee Evans drooping that pass from Flacco. If you want a guy who can throw 5 to 6 touchdowns in a 2 game span in the months of October/November against teams like the chiefs and raiders you take Freeman. If you want someone to lead you against quality opponents on the road such as Denver and New England with everything on the line take Flacco.

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#37 : March 06, 2013, 02:26:36 AM

Flacco outplayed Tom Brady in the 2011 Championship game. When has Freeman ever come close to that? Flacco isn't elite, and he got way more than he is worth....but he has really played well for the last two seasons. He and Freeman are light years apart. It's sad that some Buc fans don't realize that.

Perfectly sums things up.

The Ravens did the exact same thing with Flacco last year that the Bucs are doing with Freeman this year. They weren't confident enough to go ahead and give him an extension.

Wrong. The Ravens offered him an extension prior to the 2012 season, and Flacco declined.



True   

He declined because he said he felt he was worth more than they were offering.  Gotta love the swagger, if only our guy had some of that.  I don't rip on Flacco like a lot of people do.  Sure he got large jack, but that was a hell of a postseason run.  11 TD's  and  0 picks  IIRC.

And he stays healthy too.  He won't be the highest paid QB for long.  The Rodgers deal and maybe the Ryan deal will surpass his.


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#38 : March 06, 2013, 10:45:29 AM

"This is a very important time in his career for Josh,'' Burkhardt said. "He's about to hit the prime of his career now and do some really special things and we just wanted the Bucs to know that Josh really wants to be there and be the franchise guy he has been and will continue to be.''
quote from Freeman's new agent. So, Freeman is ready to be the franchise qb that's he's been and will continue to be.... Great, he's ready to provide more 7-10 win seasons, miss the playoffs, and allow the current stock of offensive weapons to age. But fear not Buc Fans, we will break Buccaneer offensive stat records YEAAAAAH!!!!!! cuz the Buc offensive records were so hard to reach SMH.

While I don't think Flacco is elite, he's now a Super Bowl winning qb, and Freeman's pedigree is not at the same level of Flacco. Flacco's deal should have nothing to do with the release/resign of a qb that hasn't brought his team to the playoffs.

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#39 : March 06, 2013, 01:53:57 PM

Flacco has been to the playoffs every year he's been in the league (that's 5 straight) - No one else has done that.

Flacco had 11 TDs and 0 INTs this post season while going 4-0 and taking home Super Bowl and Super Bowl MVP - No one else has done that.

Flacco is a marketing machine who sells off the field - Freeman is despised by half the fan base and blindly believed in by 49%. 1% still isn't sure what they want.

Comparing the two is really dumb. Freeman had arguably the best WR/RB weapons in the league this year which explained his numbers. Teams started playing the run while shading safeties to the sidelines and Josh melted down because he isn't someone to make a play, rather hope that someone else makes the play for him. He's had 1 season above .500 here and had ZERO in college. If "Rah" hadn't gotten all cute way back when, Josh never would've been on this team.

One more year, then we can move on finally.

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#40 : March 06, 2013, 02:13:39 PM

Flacco has been to the playoffs every year he's been in the league (that's 5 straight) - No one else has done that.

Flacco had 11 TDs and 0 INTs this post season while going 4-0 and taking home Super Bowl and Super Bowl MVP - No one else has done that.

Flacco is a marketing machine who sells off the field - Freeman is despised by half the fan base and blindly believed in by 49%. 1% still isn't sure what they want.

Comparing the two is really dumb. Freeman had arguably the best WR/RB weapons in the league this year which explained his numbers. Teams started playing the run while shading safeties to the sidelines and Josh melted down because he isn't someone to make a play, rather hope that someone else makes the play for him. He's had 1 season above .500 here and had ZERO in college. If "Rah" hadn't gotten all cute way back when, Josh never would've been on this team.

One more year, then we can move on finally.
You've gotta love when people try to claim that Flacco does next to nothing and gets carried by the D.
5 years with Joe they make the playoffs 5 straight years
12 years before Joe & The Ravens with that D made the playoffs 4 just times while having 6 losing seasons.
Yep, he's not an important part of that machine.

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#41 : March 06, 2013, 02:23:20 PM

i really do think freeman and flacco are equals.  i just really hope that barron turns out to be ed reed, david turns out to be ray lewis, and mccoy is haloti ngata.

that said, id have never broke the bank for flacco.  he's an average play from rahim moore from being the same guy that cant get over the hump.  now he's gotta be "the guy" without as many weapons and without ray lewis?  ouch.
Really? A guy who has played that well in big games over the last three years vs. Freeman? Equal?
Wow. The Ravens had an average defense last year. Flacco had a monster postseason. Josh has had two big months in four years.
If a CB and a safety from Denver doesn't forget they are in prevent defense are you talking about Flacco having a monster season?  I would offer not. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

TBTrojan

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#42 : March 06, 2013, 02:28:56 PM

i really do think freeman and flacco are equals.  i just really hope that barron turns out to be ed reed, david turns out to be ray lewis, and mccoy is haloti ngata.

that said, id have never broke the bank for flacco.  he's an average play from rahim moore from being the same guy that cant get over the hump.  now he's gotta be "the guy" without as many weapons and without ray lewis?  ouch.
Really? A guy who has played that well in big games over the last three years vs. Freeman? Equal?
Wow. The Ravens had an average defense last year. Flacco had a monster postseason. Josh has had two big months in four years.
If a CB and a safety from Denver doesn't forget they are in prevent defense are you talking about Flacco having a monster season?  I would offer not.
Oh, so it's pick what info to use time of the day is it?
In that case... If Lee Evans had bothered to do his job and catch the ball the year before we would likely be sitting here talking about 2 time Super Bowl winning QB Joe Flacco vs no time post season making Josh Freeman.

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#43 : March 06, 2013, 02:32:30 PM

Freeman is despised by half the fan base and blindly believed in by 49%. 1% still isn't sure what they want.

LOL, this is an insulting and, obviously, incorrect statement.

There\'s a very real chance the Bucs waive [Revis] before next season. At the very least, it will be a discussion worth having.

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#44 : March 06, 2013, 02:35:09 PM

I agree with you Trojan. If evans makes that catch baltimore could very well be back to back champs. But i don't like to get into this "what if" stuff. The torch has passed the offense is what does the heavy lifting for the team. This isn't your traditional ravens team led by suffocating defense. At best their D was above average the last year or two
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