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QaZ

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#60 : March 26, 2013, 12:11:22 PM

That's fine if you still want Freeman to play better, but the point was using his three game stretch of stinkbombs against non-playoff teams as evidence he can't get it done against playoff teams is completely illogical and disingenuous. At the very least, Freeman played respectable against playoff teams in 2012. His truly bad games in 2012 were not due to playing opponents that were too good for him.

Who's "...using his three game stretch of stinkbombs against non-playoff teams as evidence he can't get it done against playoff teams"?  I never brought that up.  All I said was that in the playoffs you're only going to play against good teams.  Having serviceable games against playoff teams which is exactly what he did by completing 55% of his passes with a 7/3 TD/Int ratio, isn't anything to boast about.  I may have quoted a post that may have confused my point, but really, that's all I was saying.

Freeman is a mediocre to below average QB.  He's good enough to win some games in this league, he's also bad enough where he's easily replaceable.

We could have played @MIN, not NO or STL. The fact D Martin ran wild that day does not bother a bit, because i consider football a TEAM sport.

No one here says we should not replace him IF we ever get the opportunity to upgrade our QB. But i rather have a mediocre QB like Freeman, that atleast can win us a few games, than a bad QB, and calling our defense bad is downplaying our biggst problem. I do not recall one single game in which we won DESPITE Freeman. Our defense is not just replaceable, its the benchmark of suckiness in todays NFL.

Actually i would try to trade Freeman now, improving our TEAM via more draft picks, rather than having to franchise tag him next year or letting him walk for nothing.

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#61 : March 26, 2013, 12:17:57 PM

That's fine if you still want Freeman to play better, but the point was using his three game stretch of stinkbombs against non-playoff teams as evidence he can't get it done against playoff teams is completely illogical and disingenuous. At the very least, Freeman played respectable against playoff teams in 2012. His truly bad games in 2012 were not due to playing opponents that were too good for him.

Who's "...using his three game stretch of stinkbombs against non-playoff teams as evidence he can't get it done against playoff teams"?  I never brought that up.  All I said was that in the playoffs you're only going to play against good teams.  Having serviceable games against playoff teams which is exactly what he did by completing 55% of his passes with a 7/3 TD/Int ratio, isn't anything to boast about.  I may have quoted a post that may have confused my point, but really, that's all I was saying.

Freeman is a mediocre to below average QB.  He's good enough to win some games in this league, he's also bad enough where he's easily replaceable.

We could have played @MIN, not NO or STL. The fact D Martin ran wild that day does not bother a bit, because i consider football a TEAM sport.

No one here says we should not replace him IF we ever get the opportunity to upgrade our QB. But i rather have a mediocre QB like Freeman, that atleast can win us a few games, than a bad QB, and calling our defense bad is downplaying our biggst problem. I do not recall one single game in which we won DESPITE Freeman. Our defense is not just replaceable, its the benchmark of suckiness in todays NFL.

Actually i would try to trade Freeman now, improving our TEAM via more draft picks, rather than having to franchise tag him next year or letting him walk for nothing.

The problem has been that there isnt anybody available who we know is a better option at this point. Freeman still has some potential there. If he sees that then he should be ok. 

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#62 : March 26, 2013, 12:23:29 PM

I do not recall one single game in which we won DESPITE Freeman. Our defense is not just replaceable, its the benchmark of suckiness in todays NFL.
This is true.

Freeman 90 QBR or better: 5-2

Freeman 70-89 QBR: 2-4

Freeman less than 70 QBR: 0-3

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

Biggs3535

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#63 : March 26, 2013, 12:44:21 PM

Freeman is a mediocre to below average QB.  He's good enough to win some games in this league, he's also bad enough where he's easily replaceable.

When it comes to QB's, this dude knows what he's talking about:

Flacco stinks.  The Ravens don't even want him back.  That's why they are letting his contract run out.  They're going to replace him this April.
: March 26, 2013, 12:58:14 PM Biggs3535


VinBucFan

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#64 : March 26, 2013, 01:00:33 PM

I do not recall one single game in which we won DESPITE Freeman.

were there games we won because of Freeman?

Feel Real Good

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#65 : March 26, 2013, 01:11:49 PM

I do not recall one single game in which we won DESPITE Freeman. Our defense is not just replaceable, its the benchmark of suckiness in todays NFL.
This is true.

Freeman 90 QBR or better: 5-2

Freeman 70-89 QBR: 2-4

Freeman less than 70 QBR: 0-3
Just for kicks here is Matt Ryan:

Ryan 90 QBR or better: 9-2

Ryan 70-89 QBR: 2-1

Ryan less than 70 QBR: 2-0

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

chace1986

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#66 : March 26, 2013, 01:48:31 PM

A lot of you guys on both sides of the argument are throwing out stats that are situational and don't tell the whole story.

TBH, anyone who puts sole blame on Freeman for specific losses...that's erroneous.

At the same time, it has been rather easy to see that the majority of the time, Freeman does not step up to the level needed to win games against quality opponents.  There is a difference between costing the team a game, and not stepping up when needed. Freeman's problem, so far, had been the latter.

I, like most, hope he corrects It and proves to be the future guy. We shall see.


Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.

QaZ

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#67 : March 26, 2013, 02:20:52 PM

A lot of you guys on both sides of the argument are throwing out stats that are situational and don't tell the whole story.

TBH, anyone who puts sole blame on Freeman for specific losses...that's erroneous.

At the same time, it has been rather easy to see that the majority of the time, Freeman does not step up to the level needed to win games against quality opponents.  There is a difference between costing the team a game, and not stepping up when needed. Freeman's problem, so far, had been the latter.

I, like most, hope he corrects It and proves to be the future guy. We shall see.

How many games did Freeman actually have against quality opponents in meaningful situations? When he beats 'em, it was becasue it was a meaningless games. If he beats average teams, it does not account for much, since it just was an average team, no matter how good the defense was.

I say give Freeman the chance to play a few meaningfull games, give him a chance to compete with quality opponents. Do you really expect him to beat good teams, teams that normally have a good defense and good offense ...all alone?

Look at the shutout @NO last year, with this kind of defense, i do not see any QB making this even a close game. And Freeman played horrible that day, no doubt about, still undercut by our defense. Seriously, you expect Freeman to not just to be as good as Brees, no he has to even outplay him, outplay him by a wide margin, thanks to this joke of a pass defense we put on the field? And even that would just have qualified as stat padding against a bad team, with a even worse defense. To prove himself as worthy to be called 'our' QB, being elite would not even be enough.

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#68 : March 26, 2013, 02:35:30 PM

A lot of you guys on both sides of the argument are throwing out stats that are situational and don't tell the whole story.

TBH, anyone who puts sole blame on Freeman for specific losses...that's erroneous.

At the same time, it has been rather easy to see that the majority of the time, Freeman does not step up to the level needed to win games against quality opponents.  There is a difference between costing the team a game, and not stepping up when needed. Freeman's problem, so far, had been the latter.

I, like most, hope he corrects It and proves to be the future guy. We shall see.

How many games did Freeman actually have against quality opponents in meaningful situations? When he beats 'em, it was becasue it was a meaningless games. If he beats average teams, it does not account for much, since it just was an average team, no matter how good the defense was.

I say give Freeman the chance to play a few meaningfull games, give him a chance to compete with quality opponents. Do you really expect him to beat good teams, teams that normally have a good defense and good offense ...all alone?

Look at the shutout @NO last year, with this kind of defense, i do not see any QB making this even a close game. And Freeman played horrible that day, no doubt about, still undercut by our defense. Seriously, you expect Freeman to not just to be as good as Brees, no he has to even outplay him, outplay him by a wide margin, thanks to this joke of a pass defense we put on the field? And even that would just have qualified as stat padding against a bad team, with a even worse defense. To prove himself as worthy to be called 'our' QB, being elite would not even be enough.

To the bold, he has had several over the course of his career as a Buc, not just in 2012. I won't address everything else not bolded, because it doesn't even correlate to the words I said and the point I was making...it's just general retorts to other arguments being made in this thread. Seems, you read into my post as if it were an anti-Freeman post and it most certainly was not.


Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.

Feel Real Good

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#69 : March 26, 2013, 03:01:54 PM

A lot of you guys on both sides of the argument are throwing out stats that are situational and don't tell the whole story.

TBH, anyone who puts sole blame on Freeman for specific losses...that's erroneous.

At the same time, it has been rather easy to see that the majority of the time, Freeman does not step up to the level needed to win games against quality opponents.  There is a difference between costing the team a game, and not stepping up when needed. Freeman's problem, so far, had been the latter.

I, like most, hope he corrects It and proves to be the future guy. We shall see.
I think fans have selective memories about just how often QB's "step up to the level needed to win games against quality opponents". The average good NFL team still loses 4-6 games per year and they don't just lose to the bad teams. Chances are most of the time a good team loses it's to another good team. Defensive players get paid, too, and sometimes they make QB's look bad. In Matt Ryan's second season the Falcons played four games against playoff teams and Ryan went 4/5 while his team went 1-3. 

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

chace1986

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#70 : March 26, 2013, 03:34:50 PM

A lot of you guys on both sides of the argument are throwing out stats that are situational and don't tell the whole story.

TBH, anyone who puts sole blame on Freeman for specific losses...that's erroneous.

At the same time, it has been rather easy to see that the majority of the time, Freeman does not step up to the level needed to win games against quality opponents.  There is a difference between costing the team a game, and not stepping up when needed. Freeman's problem, so far, had been the latter.

I, like most, hope he corrects It and proves to be the future guy. We shall see.
I think fans have selective memories about just how often QB's "step up to the level needed to win games against quality opponents". The average good NFL team still loses 4-6 games per year and they don't just lose to the bad teams. Chances are most of the time a good team loses it's to another good team. Defensive players get paid, too, and sometimes they make QB's look bad. In Matt Ryan's second season the Falcons played four games against playoff teams and Ryan went 4/5 while his team went 1-3.

I think "selective memory" would be to say that he "never" steps up when the team needs him to against quality opponents....which is not what I said. There certainly have been games in which Freeman has played good against a good team...but did not get the support needed, for instance, I would not classify the week 12 Atlanta game as one in which Freeman did not step up.

I also think fans concentrate too much on stats instead of looking at things situationally and formulating an opinion based upon if a guy is making(or missing) a play in a pivotal point in a game. In the game mentioned above, it's certainly not Freeman's fault that TQU dropped a pass on 3rd down in the fourth qtr, during what seemed like a drive meant for the endzone....but you know what? Not only does that drop get counted on TQU's stat sheet, it also negatively affects Freemans completion % and even his QB rating.

Stats never tell the whole story. Never.
: March 26, 2013, 03:43:52 PM chace1986


Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.

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#71 : March 27, 2013, 03:09:06 PM

I do not recall one single game in which we won DESPITE Freeman.

were there games we won because of Freeman?

How bout the overtime comeback win against Carolina where he put this team on his back with like 6 minutes left needing 2 quick scores?

Check out www.reverbnation.com/nickfreddy and follow me on twitter @nick_freddy

Feel Real Good

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#72 : March 27, 2013, 03:19:19 PM

I do not recall one single game in which we won DESPITE Freeman.

were there games we won because of Freeman?

How bout the overtime comeback win against Carolina where he put this team on his back with like 6 minutes left needing 2 quick scores?
Come on Freeman should have never been down in the first place against a bad team.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

BucNY

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#73 : March 27, 2013, 04:08:21 PM

I do not recall one single game in which we won DESPITE Freeman. Our defense is not just replaceable, its the benchmark of suckiness in todays NFL.
This is true.

Freeman 90 QBR or better: 5-2

Freeman 70-89 QBR: 2-4

Freeman less than 70 QBR: 0-3

As a Freepologist, those stats tell me that winning the game was directly on Freemans shoulders. When he played well the team generally won. If he was off we lost because there is no way in hell this defense was giving enough support to win.

Give Freeman an average defense and this team is a playoff team. Even the great Aaron Rogers can't do it by himself.

\\\\\\\"This forum needs a poster like BucNY now more than ever\\\\\\\"
      - Everyone

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#74 : March 27, 2013, 05:46:26 PM

Freeman is a mediocre to below average QB.  He's good enough to win some games in this league, he's also bad enough where he's easily replaceable.

When it comes to QB's, this dude knows what he's talking about:

Flacco stinks.  The Ravens don't even want him back.  That's why they are letting his contract run out.  They're going to replace him this April.

Lol
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