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tatmanfish

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« #45 : May 08, 2013, 01:37:40 PM »

im definitely a supporter of post pregnancy abortion. Wish more parents were honest with them selves and realized the burden they placed on society wasn't fit to live on this earth.

early trimester abortion....I don't have a uterus to comment. There are many factors where keeping a child might be worse than the termination. Drug addicted prostitutes seems like one to me. A junkie babie deformed and incapable of living a semi normal life doesn't sound like the best burden. Cases of rape. Most are extreme cases, but I think that's what it should be reserved for. most other cases I do not approve of, but once again I don't have a uterus.

Its been a practice throughout history and I don't think the people or economic systems are able to support the medical, fostering/adoption, and care costs to support all these children. Morally its very taboo and for good reason. I still think the current system beats the rusty coat hanger procedure.



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« #46 : May 13, 2013, 03:52:18 PM »

An outcome


Jury convicts abortion provider Kermit Gosnell of murder

By Brady Dennis, Updated: Monday, May 13, 3:44 PM E-mail the writer
PHILADELPHIA — Abortion provider Kermit Gosnell was convicted Monday of three counts of first-degree murder for severing the spinal cords of infants born during abortions at his West Philadelphia clinic.

Gosnell also was convicted of involuntary manslaughter in the 2009 death of 41-year-old Virginia woman Karnamaya Mongar, who died from an overdose of drugs while undergoing an abortion at the clinic. Prosecutors described the clinic as a “house of horrors” because of the unsanitary conditions and unsafe practices that defined it.

The trial now moves into a sentencing phase to decide whether Gosnell should receive the death penalty or face life in prison on the capital murder counts.

Gosnell reacted calmly to the verdicts, but jurors and lawyers displayed more emotion. One prosecutor was sobbing.

The verdicts were announced just before 3 p.m., a few hours after the jurors informed the judge in the case that they were hung on two charges.

It remained unclear which of the more than 260 charges against Gosnell had caused the stalemate. When jurors were brought into the courtroom about 11:15 a.m., Judge Jeffrey P. Minehart gave them what is commonly called a Spencer charge, telling them to reexamine the evidence and continue trying to reach a verdict.

“The fact that you are stuck on two counts — it shows you are considering the evidence seriously. It’s an indication of your sincerity and your objectivity,” Minehart said. “It’s a difficult case. We appreciate that.”

Minehart said the gridlock also could represent “confusion” about the details of the charges in the case and the evidence presented. He said he was sending the jurors back to further consider that evidence in hopes of reaching a consensus. But, he added, “no juror should surrender an honest conviction” merely to reach a verdict.

Monday’s verdicts came during the jurors’ 10th day of deliberations, which have stretched into a third week.

Gosnell, 72, faced four first-degree murder charges in connection with babies identified in court as A, C, D and E. He was acquitted in the death of Baby E.

He originally faced seven first-degree murder charges, but Minehart dismissed three of those charges.

Gosnell was found guilty of many lesser charges.

Prosecutors accused him of a slew of offenses, including 227 counts of failing to observe Pennsylvania’s 24-hour waiting period before performing an abortion, two dozen counts of performing abortions beyond the state’s 24-week legal limit, and various other charges, including conspiracy and running a corrupt organization.

Investigators portrayed the Women’s Medical Society on Lancaster Avenue, which Gosnell ran for decades, as a little-regulated place where untrained, uneducated employees pumped patients full of anesthesia and labor-inducing drugs, and where women often ended up injured or sick. Prosecutors said they intended to seek the death penalty in the event of a conviction on any of the first-degree murder charges.

Jurors spent significant chunks of last week rehearing testimony of key witnesses, suggesting that could be wrestling over a peculiar legal quandary at the heart of the case: To find Gosnell guilty of murder, they first had to agree that the babies were alive outside the mother’s womb.

That remained a central dispute throughout the high-profile trial, which began in March.

Gosnell’s attorney, Jack McMahon, argued that no live births took place at the clinic because Gosnell terminated the pregnancies in utero using a drug called digoxin. A medical examiner could not say conclusively whether any of the infants had been alive after delivery, in part because their remains had long been frozen in a clinic freezer.

Jurors were left to rely primarily on the eyewitness accounts of untrained former employees who testified that women often gave birth in the clinic after being pumped full of drugs to induce labor. The former employees also described seeing infants move or make noises after birth, just before Gosnell severed their spinal cords with scissors. Some of those same employees performed abortions and have pleaded guilty to crimes, including third-degree murder, while agreeing to testify against their former boss.

Co-defendant Eileen O’Neill, an unlicensed doctor who saw patients at Gosnell’s clinic but did not participate in abortions, faces multiple charges of conspiracy and theft by deception for allegedly posing as a licensed doctor.


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VinBucFan

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« #47 : May 13, 2013, 03:54:21 PM »

Interesting to see where it goes from here

CBWx2

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« #48 : May 14, 2013, 10:19:48 AM »

Interesting to see where it goes from here

My guess is he'll go to prison.


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« #49 : May 14, 2013, 11:08:34 AM »

Interesting to see where it goes from here

My guess is he'll go to prison.

I meant the broader debate.  I supposed the pro-abortion side will try hard to portray the guy as a rogue and the anti-abortion side will try to portray the facts as the norm or close to the norm.  It will be interesting to see THAT play out

CBWx2

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« #50 : May 20, 2013, 05:34:07 PM »

Interesting to see where it goes from here

My guess is he'll go to prison.

I meant the broader debate.  I supposed the pro-abortion side will try hard to portray the guy as a rogue and the anti-abortion side will try to portray the facts as the norm or close to the norm.  It will be interesting to see THAT play out

I don't think it will be all that interesting. Logic suggests that if most, or even a fairly large number of abortion doctors were operating similarly to the way Gosnell was, then there would be a lot more trials than just the one that the anti-choice crowd is currently screaming about. Logic suggests that most logical people understand this, so I doubt that big referendum on abortion that they want to make this trial into will actually come to fruition. But of course, they won't see the logic in that, and will simply blame it on a media conspiracy. Now THAT will be the interesting part.


Biggs3535

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« #51 : May 21, 2013, 09:35:39 AM »

Logic suggests that if most, or even a fairly large number of abortion doctors were operating similarly to the way Gosnell was, then there would be a lot more trials than just the one that the anti-choice crowd is currently screaming about.

The pro-death crowd aren't screaming about it?


spartan

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« #52 : May 21, 2013, 01:59:15 PM »

im definitely a supporter of post pregnancy abortion.

POST pregnancy abortion? Really? There's a medical term for that, it called child birth.

So at what age does it not become abortion and becomes good old fashioned murder?
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