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TheChronicHotAir

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#210 : April 23, 2013, 03:23:38 PM

When someone commits terrorist act - what is the line where it is a crime vs an act of war?

U.S. citizien = terror(ist) incident
I think it has to be a foreign resident for it to be "an act of war".


So, in other words, the brothers would have to be tried differently, if they were both alive, right??


CalcuttaRain

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#211 : April 23, 2013, 03:32:45 PM

When someone commits terrorist act - what is the line where it is a crime vs an act of war?

I think the line ought to be the fact that you go to war against a country, not an idea. But that's just me.
I don't know what the legal or statutory difference is current - do you?  I am not looking to start a debate over what it should be - just wondering what it is, and then wondering how being a citizen rolls into the matter.

on being a citizen, one could argue that non-citizens are not entitled to the same protection that our citizens are afforded under the law (i.e, Miranda, search & seizure)

as far as I know, it is not part of a statute, it relates to the Geneva Convention. Bush used the temr "enemy combatant" to desrcibe "unlawful combatants" meaning not subject to Geneva Convention.  Obama droped that approach. The point is that if someone is an "unlawful combatant" the detaining power, after tribunal, can CHOOSE to treat the person as a prisoner of war as opposed to being forced to treat them as such.

Frankly, every person should be afforded a right to fair trial. There may be secutity questions about handling evidence, but a human being has a right to a fair trial before being punished
: April 23, 2013, 03:41:14 PM VinBucFan

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dbucfan

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#212 : April 23, 2013, 06:05:04 PM

I spent some time checking for delineation and noted the issue seems unresolved.  Citizenry is one element for consideration which would seem to move terrorism towards a crime. 

As for every person being afforded a right for a fair trial - that appears to be in place for citizens as well insofar as the US is concerned - unless the Executive Branch determines otherwise. 

The question will likely move itself to whether or not a religious group can wage war, or be considered to have such status, in attacking "others".  I don't think anyone has done much more than to offer individual handling guidelines as both Bush and Obama have. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

Dolorous Jason

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#213 : April 23, 2013, 07:51:11 PM

An actual "war" has to be declared , does it not ?

If the United States Congress has not officially passed a declaration of war against a certain terrorist group or person , that person deserves his day in court I'd say.

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

Cyrus

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#214 : April 23, 2013, 08:07:50 PM

"An actual "war" has to be declared , does it not ?"

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.
: April 23, 2013, 08:26:04 PM Durango 95

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#215 : April 23, 2013, 08:19:36 PM

"An actual "war" has to be declared , does it not ?"

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to device.

I hate it when people device

Cyrus

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#216 : April 23, 2013, 08:29:17 PM

"An actual "war" has to be declared , does it not ?"

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to device.

I hate it when people device

I fixed it just for you. Now. have a lollipop,  it'll sooth your fragile sensibilities

Dolorous Jason

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#217 : April 23, 2013, 08:30:44 PM

"An actual "war" has to be declared , does it not ?"

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to device.

I hate it when people device

LOL .

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

Cyrus

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#218 : April 23, 2013, 08:38:13 PM

Here comes another member of the Lollipop Guild rushing in to grab the low hanging fruit.

dbucfan

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#219 : April 23, 2013, 08:54:46 PM

It doesn't appear war has to be declared - or declired if you prefer....

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#220 : April 23, 2013, 09:07:09 PM

"An actual "war" has to be declared , does it not ?"

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to device.

I hate it when people device

I fixed it just for you. Now. have a lollipop,  it'll sooth your fragile sensibilities

sheesh, some people are so sensortive.


CalcuttaRain

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#221 : April 24, 2013, 12:14:00 AM

I spent some time checking for delineation and noted the issue seems unresolved.  Citizenry is one element for consideration which would seem to move terrorism towards a crime. 

As for every person being afforded a right for a fair trial - that appears to be in place for citizens as well insofar as the US is concerned - unless the Executive Branch determines otherwise. 

The question will likely move itself to whether or not a religious group can wage war, or be considered to have such status, in attacking "others".  I don't think anyone has done much more than to offer individual handling guidelines as both Bush and Obama have.

The reason Bush took the position he did, I presume, is because a war is presumed to be of limited duration and so prisoners of war are returned when hostilities cease. However, a "war on terror" arguably never ceases or at least the hostility of the combatants never cease, so how do you return them and when do you return them?

It is a separate issue that a citizen has rights so no distinction necessary between terrorism and crime

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

spartan

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#222 : April 24, 2013, 10:05:51 AM

An actual "war" has to be declared , does it not ?

If the United States Congress has not officially passed a declaration of war against a certain terrorist group or person , that person deserves his day in court I'd say.

So what happens if China (for example) launches a surprise attack against Pearl Harbor ala 1941 and planes are shot down? Those pilots are then mirandized and put through a court of law because a state of war had not been declared?

Common sense and our rights need to prevail. I would like nothing more than for this guy to be hung up by his testicles and beat to death by the people of Boston, but, in this case I think law enforcement is the right way to go. If it was someone picked up in a foreign land, for an act in a foreign country, POW/unlawful combatant status dependent on the circumstances.

Dolorous Jason

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#223 : April 24, 2013, 01:19:49 PM

Not sure what you are asking,  spartan. If China attacked Pearl Harbor im pretty sure we would declare war,  the same way we did against Japan.
: April 24, 2013, 01:22:08 PM Fire Mark Dummynik

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

John Galt?

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#224 : April 24, 2013, 02:02:23 PM

An actual "war" has to be declared , does it not ?


Ask a Vietnam Vet.

If the United States Congress has not officially passed a declaration of war against a certain terrorist group or person , that person deserves his day in court I'd say.

There was no declaration of war against North Korea in '49, North Vietnam, Lebanon ('58, '83), Bosnia/Serbia, Libya in the '80s, Libya last yr, Somalia, Grenada, Barbary Coast (twice), Veracruz/Mexico, and 29 different Native American groups/tribes, and of course, Afghanistan.

So when do all those millions get their day in court, and how big is this court?

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