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shawn731

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#75 : April 26, 2013, 03:05:10 PM

Can we agree that we expect alot from Freeman and that we all want a very successfull year from our TEAM!  All the bickering is leading no where and to be honest we all want the same conclusion which is a playoff or superbowl winning football team.  PERIOD.


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#76 : April 26, 2013, 03:09:04 PM

Can we agree that we expect alot from Freeman and that we all want a very successfull year from our TEAM!  All the bickering is leading no where and to be honest we all want the same conclusion which is a playoff or superbowl winning football team.  PERIOD.

lol this.

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#77 : April 26, 2013, 03:11:12 PM

Can we agree that we expect alot from Freeman and that we all want a very successfull year from our TEAM!  All the bickering is leading no where and to be honest we all want the same conclusion which is a playoff or superbowl winning football team.  PERIOD.

You must be new here....some here would rather be right!!

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 I thought Lovie said he wanted quickness & speed, even at the QB position?

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#78 : April 26, 2013, 04:38:43 PM

Jesus Christ. Just went back and read through all this crap. To think...all this started because JC5100 couldn't handle the bold. Typical.

Darrelle Revis for less than what it took the Rams to get Tavon Austin, the Dolphins to get Dion Jordan, and about equal to what the Niners gave up for Eric Reid. Those players could have dreams of being universally considered elite at their position and a first ballot HOFer, but we got the guy who doesn't dream it, we got the guy who lives it.

Mayock said it best before the draft started in a segment about the 13th pick; Tampa has already won Day 1 of the draft when they got Revis.

I've never seen a position group go from complete liability to strength of a football team in one offseason. Revis and Goldson are among the best at what they do, were the best player available on the market at their positions and now they are Bucs.

There is only one guy  that can **CENSORED** this up and it isn't Schiano. Freeman has been surrounded by one of the best rosters in the league, he can't hold this team back this year. Receivers are there, running game is there, o-line in tact, front 7 that is stocked full of premium picks over the past few years is developing, and now Revis to put an end to every teams #1 receiver tearing us up every week.

Then it turns into a "you are a Freeman hater" finger pointing sh*t storm.

Like the OP awitron. I agree. It's on Freeman. We need him to be consistent this year. Inconsistency can certainly hold us back as a team.


Now...let's see if I can contribute to the Freeman madness.

Hell, there are certainly Freeman haters out there, I won't deny that...but I think a lot of the Freeman convo that happens is more about fans responding to fans rather than fans bashing Freeman. From what I have seen in a lot of these Freeman threads where it gets "testy" to say the least. One fan will say how they can't believe Freeman gets the blame when the pass D was so bad. Then there will be a response showing that there were times that Freeman was to blame...then it just spirals out of control. Anyone with eyes and a brain can see that the pass defense last year was horrendous. That said, there are some threads out there that specifically discuss Freeman's play. Inside that thread, fans shouldn't have to preface every Freeman critique with a statement declaring how bad the defense was.

I think a lot of people also realize that there is give and take and both the offense and the defense contribute, to a degree, to how the other side of the ball plays by the scenarios they are put in. A negative example of this would be, if the offense can't establish any sort of a drive and constantly leaves the defense to play with a short field. The other side of that scenario is if the defense gives up two quick scores, then the offenses game plan has now taken a different turn. A positive example would be if the defense gets a turnover allowing the offense to have first and goal at the 8 yard line. The other side of this would be if the offense holds onto the ball for the majority of the first half on a few long drives, allowing the defense(and the opposing offense) to stay off the field. They work hand in hand. So while the defense may have had more failures, especially the blatant ones that happened toward the end of the game, the blame can easily be spread to both sides of the ball for every loss the Bucs suffered.

Everyone recognizes that the defense was bad last year. At the same time, like you said, "This is a team game last I checked.". Josh Freeman wasn't the primary culprit, but he was one of the reasons why this team didn't make the playoffs and struggled at times. Sure, you can look at specific moments and say, "well, if this wouldn't have happened.....", but the fact is, this team didn't make the playoffs last year because they collectively weren't good enough. The Bucs have added some pieces, they are getting some players back, and some weaknesses have been fixed. We should see the whole team improve. That said, our season will now rest upon how our QB plays. Fact is, he will need to play a little better than he did last year. This isn't about stats. This is about playing good football in key situations. This is about sustaining long drives and helping to keep the defense and the opposing offense off the field as much as possible. This is about being efficient in the red zone. This is about not throwing an INT and letting the opposing team not only have the ball with a short field, but also allowing them to grab the momentum. This is about so much more than stats. The Bucs will play a tougher schedule this year and will need to play solid and consistent all year to get to the post season. There should be less pressure on Freeman, but we will live and die through him. Hopefully he comes through and thrives.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

rikes

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#79 : April 26, 2013, 04:44:51 PM

I love how positive this thread started off as and in classic PR fashion a good thread turned into a debate about something so relevant to the OP...

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#80 : April 26, 2013, 06:31:24 PM

honestly, Revis would have given us 4 additional wins last year. it wasn't Freeman holding us back against the Giants, Redskins, both Saints games, and the Eagles.

BWAHAHAHA, for starters, Freeman was horrendous in the 2nd Saints game...and how did he play for 3 qtrs in the Eagles game?!

SMH

yes, while defense was horrendous all year. I rather have a roller coster QB like Freeman , than our 2012 pass defense. Sorry but im but buying your 'consistency', defense was consistent... consistently bad.

We do not even win most of the games when our offense plays good, but we lose every single game, in which our offense struggles, because of our horrible defense. How many games did we have won DESPITE Freeman?

Teams don't win games in spite of bad QB play unless they have a great defense.

Again, this team was 6-4 w/this same consistently bad defense because Freeman was playing well. He tanked and so did the team...go figure.

So in a sense Freeman actually carried the team over that same 10 game stretch? I mean if you gonna hold him soley responsible for a 5 games stretch of losses, don't you have to do the opposite while he was playing well?

Tell you what, give me Freeman who lead the team well in 11 outta 16 games (given the 5 where he held the team back, smh) and a solid defense and we're going to be very good.

Carried them? No...played very well for the most part, yes.

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#81 : April 26, 2013, 06:33:00 PM

Freeman didn't hold this team back last season? Ignorance at its finest!!!

Either way, he's 24-34 in his career as a starter, but hey, let's just hold onto the excuse it's simply because the team was bad, has nothing to do w/his inconsistent play!!!
Surely his inconsistent play is an issue.  And surely he spent a good portion of his first 4 years wondering when some help might arrive.  For instance, last year the pass defense wasn't a strong point for the buccaneers.  Good to see you.

Good to see you joined the "Freeman Excuses Club!!!

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#82 : April 26, 2013, 06:54:00 PM



As long as he's listed in the official game program as the Buccaneer starting qb, I'll hope he improves, but at his current pace, I'll pray for a better option.
My question, is simply, how long do we have to wait in mediocrity to see if he has "it"?
--I see a lot of posters talk about player xyz is a bust, make comments about "he's been in the league 6 years, he is what he is", or comments about, "he's a rookie, he'll grow". We have a qb that's going into his 5th season, albeit 4.5 roughly, as the starter, when does he become "he is what he is", if somebody like E Wright is what he is, and doesn't get the benefit of "different systems" and "different coaches", why does Freeman get those? Is it simply because Freeman is a qb? Doesn't every "skill" position deserve the same leeway?

We do not have to wait in mediocrity to see if he has 'it', the moment a better QB is available, Freeman will be gone. Just as Peyton got replaced by Luck. Actually, in Freeman's case, we should be happy to atleast wait in MEDIOCRITY, until our elite QB becomes available, to replace #5, instead of watching guys like Sanchez.

No one here doubts the 'he is what he is'... an above average QB in the NFL, but not even QB like that grow on trees. No one wants to make more out of him. There were no 'Do not draft R Wilson threads, to replace Freeman', just there was almost no one lobbying for Wilson either, just complains about how a franchise like us deservers better than be 'plagued' by a QB like Freeman.

Pointing out explaination why this team did not win more games, is excusing Freeman suckiness, sugarcoating him.  You want fair evaluation, no biased ones? Sure, thats what i'm asking for aswell. But Brees gets excused my horrible defense, a new HC etc. Freeman finished 7-9 without such handicaps, right? It was Brees who had to learn a new offense, right? Ryan throws 5 INT (0 TDs)... no problem, they won anyway. Freeman throws 4 INT, game over. No one excuses Ryan success, pointing out his weapons and defense. But in Freemans case, good WR just make it worse, every one could have done that, he has no value.

2 things:

1) I love the "there's nothing better out there" claim...you know this how exactly?

2) And here we go again comparing Freeman to QBs like Brees (elite) and Ryan (very good). AWFUL

QaZ

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#83 : April 27, 2013, 08:45:35 AM



2 things:

1) I love the "there's nothing better out there" claim...you know this how exactly?

2) And here we go again comparing Freeman to QBs like Brees (elite) and Ryan (very good). AWFUL

1) I already named a 3rd round pick to maybe replace Freeman...so, what do i know exactly?
2) I did not compare 'em, trying to make Freeman look as good as Brees & Co. I just say its BS to talk about wins(team accomplishments), when an elite QB under similar circumstance, also just finishes 7-9, or very good QB throws 5 INT 0 TD and his team still wins. Some get excused, others get biased hate. I do not want to excuse Freemans bad games, praise him for little things, just an obejctive view would be nice.

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#84 : April 27, 2013, 09:43:23 AM

I don't think much has been brewing since the SB win. 

JC5100

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#85 : April 27, 2013, 10:21:06 AM

The 24-34 record would be a good argument against Freeman if they weren't 0-8 without him in the same span and didn't have the #27, #29 and #30 defenses in his 3 losing seasons.

The one thing I will blame Freeman for is giving up last second winning drives to Chris Redman, Nick Foles and Chad Henne.
: April 27, 2013, 10:24:28 AM JC5100

alldaway

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#86 : April 27, 2013, 10:32:55 AM

Rutgers has made his bed as well as Dom.

RogerGoodellSucks

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#87 : April 27, 2013, 11:27:49 AM

I wonder how many times this same exact debate has gone on this off-season.


JC5100

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#88 : April 27, 2013, 02:24:55 PM

I wonder how many times this same exact debate has gone on this off-season.

Just as much as it is inside the Bucs building apparently.

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#89 : September 23, 2013, 02:46:05 AM

There is only one guy  that can **CENSORED** this up and it isn't Schiano. Freeman has been surrounded by one of the best rosters in the league, he can't hold this team back this year. Receivers are there, running game is there, o-line in tact, front 7 that is stocked full of premium picks over the past few years is developing, and now Revis to put an end to every teams #1 receiver tearing us up every week.

I was wrong. Schiano CAN **CENSORED** this up.

These are my concerns about Schiano. He thinks hes the **CENSORED**, when really he is someone who couldn\'t win the Big East once in 10 years.

I said it before and I\'ll say it again, Josh Freeman is the only thing that can save this franchise from this dude. If he doesn\'t adjust his style AND Freeman cant win enough, we\'re going to be wondering who the next coach is going to be in 2 years.
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