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QaZ

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#30 : April 29, 2013, 08:22:38 AM

If the defense plays better, and the guy just takes a deep breath and relaxes....this team can make a serious run

Tbh, Freeman did not really excell under those circumstances. I do not know if a really want a 'relaxed' Freeman on the field.

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#31 : April 29, 2013, 08:32:16 AM

Consistently inconsistent aka Josh Freeman.

- Played well enough for the Bucs to be 11-2
- #32 pass defense made them 6-7
- Blame the QB!

You keep spouting this weapons grade stupid....and I'm likely wasting my breath but we will try and get you to see the light. One thing has nothing to do with the other. The QB can be good or bad regardless of the pass defense. The pass defense can be bad AND the QB can be bad. Do you get that simple idea? No, you won't.

Taking a gander at Josh's sterling QBing last season let's look at games he played well we lost: NO QBR 115 and lost and he had a 90 QBR vs ATL1 and lost. Those are games we lost he didn't cause us to lose. Now, quick let us check the game he wasn't good and we won: vs ATL2 his QBR was 71 and we won. At most we "lost" one extra game but here are Josh's QBR's in our other losses: 76, 45, 83, 72, 79, 37, 52. Toss in that we won a game where he threw for 138 yards (CAR1) and he didn't do much to help that day either I'd say you are pretty much entirely wrong.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
If you think Manziel is the best QB in this draft I can safely assume you are an idiot and will treat you as such.

JC5100

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#32 : April 29, 2013, 08:37:30 AM

Freeman while Bucs are in playoff contention. 3 year, 40 game sample size. Not 2 games, 8 days.

776/1307, 9358 yards, 62 TDs, 30 INTs, 87.6 rating

Averaged over a 16 game season: 3743 yards, 25 TDs, 12 INTs

This is the guy half you are trying to run out of town.


JC5100

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#33 : April 29, 2013, 08:46:08 AM

You keep spouting this weapons grade stupid

English?

This team would have been 11-2 if the pass defense wasn't constantly crapping the bed. But go ahead and run the QB out of town.

moose40

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#34 : April 29, 2013, 09:06:04 AM

If Freeman doesn't throw multiple picks in the Giants game, Manning doesn't come back....
If Freeman leads the offense to some points in the Eagles game first half, the Bucs win that game.
How about the 110 yards passing against the Cowboys? 1 td and 1 int? Shouldn't a franchise qb be better then that????

The problem is, the supposed Freeman haters aren't giving the d a pass, we all know it was bad, but we also know it's a team effort and the most pivotal position on the team had some bad games causing those losses JUST AS MUCH as the defense.

QaZ

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#35 : April 29, 2013, 09:54:21 AM

If Freeman doesn't throw multiple picks in the Giants game, Manning doesn't come back....
If Freeman leads the offense to some points in the Eagles game first half, the Bucs win that game.
How about the 110 yards passing against the Cowboys? 1 td and 1 int? Shouldn't a franchise qb be better then that????

The problem is, the supposed Freeman haters aren't giving the d a pass, we all know it was bad, but we also know it's a team effort and the most pivotal position on the team had some bad games causing those losses JUST AS MUCH as the defense.

The supposed Defense haters think playing bad for 15 games(just the Dallas game qualifies as a real good game for our defense) is not 'just as much as' Freeman's bad games, its more.

Sure the Defense might have had a few more 'good' games than just DAL, if you say they did enough for most of the game, to allow the offense to win it.(->NYG, DEN, PHI), giving them a pass for a few bad sequences(200y in 4th Q, bad 3rd Q, 15 points in last few minutes). Just Freeman had a ton of those game, struggling for a while, but 'good 'enough to win it. You blame him for not having a lot of real good games, but he atleast had a few, our defense had almost none.

QB might be the most pivotal position on the team, but thats why some do not take an above average QB for granted, no one gives him a pass, we all know we 'could' do better at QB. He might have had a few bad game, but not even nearly as much as our defense, which was consitently bad. The supposed Freeman lovers do not want such consistency, they do not think we are one good QB away from the promised land, having seen how even Brees just finished  7-9, under similar circumstances...new HC, bad defense.
Even the biggest Freeman lovers are not refusing to replace Freeman with a better QB if given the chance.

moose40

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#36 : April 29, 2013, 10:10:55 AM

QaZ, I know you've had to seen/ read  most of the posts, the general consensus is:
I'm paraphrasing:
"Freeman would have had the Bucs sitting around 11-2 if the defense was good"
"The defense lost the Giants and Eagles games"
"The defense held the team back"

People posting that type of jibberish are not going to admit that Freeman is just as responsible for those losses as Gorrer is for dropping the interception, or any other cb getting burned. It's not that I hate Freeman, I hate his inconsistencies. For every pinpoint thread of the needle pass to win the game against Carolina, he sails one over a wide open Mike Williams head standing unguarded at the 7 yard line.
"But Freeman threw for 4,000 yards, that's not an inconsistent qb"
Whoopty do.... For every 350 yard 3 td no interception game he has, he also has a 110 yard 0 td 3 interception game. (I guess that's consistency)

I guess long story short, imo, which only matters to me in the end, he shows that he has enough ability to be a top 15 qb in the league, but has enough brain farts to make me wish for Dan O to come into the game.



chace1986

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#37 : April 29, 2013, 10:19:51 AM

The statement of "the Bucs would have been 11-2" is absolutely absurd. There is no way of knowing that injecting a different player or two would have changed the outcome of a game or not. That's just speculative BS.

Also, how many other teams in the league can look back at last year and say, "man, if we could have changed _____, we would have been in the playoffs"..? Whether its secondary, offensive line, run d, WR, or QB deficiencies...the Bucs are not unique in the ability to add speculative "hindsight victories" when speaking of previous years.



Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.

tatmanfish

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#38 : April 29, 2013, 10:34:17 AM

Saying freeman was just as much of a problem is quite a stretch. Freeman had a few bad games, a few average ones, 7-8 good ones and I understand his deficiencies. Acting like hes a 50/50 shot at being bad or good is extreme.

Saying thats equal to a pass d that was just a few yards shy of being the worst pass d in nfl is a huge exaggeration. Freeman wasnt a few plays from the worst qb in nfl history. Freeman has a few problems, but no where near the extent of the pass d last year.



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Madman

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#39 : April 29, 2013, 10:38:25 AM

I don't think anyone is advocating Vick like running. Talking Aaron Rodgers or Cam Newtown... extend plays with your feet and make a big run when it's there. Like Free did in 2010. 

tatmanfish

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#40 : April 29, 2013, 11:05:14 AM

I don't think anyone is advocating Vick like running. Talking Aaron Rodgers or Cam Newtown... extend plays with your feet and make a big run when it's there. Like Free did in 2010.

Cam? Really?  Dude has over 100 carries each season. Thats vick like running. Rodgers is closer to 60per year and freeman isnt too far behind those totals. Were taliing the difference of 20 or so carries over freemans career to average around that 60 mark.

I honestly think most people have no idea of what qbs in the nfl are putting up for rushing totals.



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alldaway

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#41 : April 29, 2013, 11:06:27 AM

I rather see Freeman make better decisions..then run around playing sandlot football....I guess that make me crazy haha.


QaZ

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#42 : April 29, 2013, 11:10:29 AM

The statement of "the Bucs would have been 11-2" is absolutely absurd. There is no way of knowing that injecting a different player or two would have changed the outcome of a game or not. That's just speculative BS.

Also, how many other teams in the league can look back at last year and say, "man, if we could have changed _____, we would have been in the playoffs"..? Whether its secondary, offensive line, run d, WR, or QB deficiencies...the Bucs are not unique in the ability to add speculative "hindsight victories" when speaking of previous years.

call it cherry picking or what ever, but i do not think you should isolate single plays etc. either.
But i would like to see Freeman just once with an average defense. I also would like to have just once an elite QB on my favourite team, no doubt. Just i see one thing far more realistic, Freeman backed up by an average defense. An elite QB might not even solve our defensive issues at all(->Brees 2012), and based on some of those QB evaluations here, i fear we might even run him(not Freeman) out of town, before we see his true value. He might not be so lucky to be backed up a #1 defense(R Wilson) or a K Cousin(RG3) to get those wins it needs to please the crowd.

chace1986

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#43 : April 29, 2013, 11:22:21 AM

I don't think anyone is advocating Vick like running. Talking Aaron Rodgers or Cam Newtown... extend plays with your feet and make a big run when it's there. Like Free did in 2010.

Cam? Really?  Dude has over 100 carries each season. Thats vick like running. Rodgers is closer to 60per year and freeman isnt too far behind those totals. Were taliing the difference of 20 or so carries over freemans career to average around that 60 mark.

I honestly think most people have no idea of what qbs in the nfl are putting up for rushing totals.

I honestly don't care how many rushes he averages per game or where he is in carries compared to other QBs. What I care about is him taking advantage of his running ability in certain and specific situations. We all have seen over the past two years those specific plays where he has the opportunity to pick up a 1st down on 3rd and __, but chooses to force a throw. It may happen one time a game, a few times a game, or sometimes may not come up for a few games, but those plays have been out there to make and there has been some hesitation. Now, I definitely don't want to see him taking off like VY, Cam, or Vick. Under 60 sounds good for a season. Just depends on the circumstances. I'm sure he will strike a happy balance this coming season between what we saw last year, and what we saw in 2010.


Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.

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#44 : April 29, 2013, 11:28:01 AM

I don't think anyone is advocating Vick like running. Talking Aaron Rodgers or Cam Newtown... extend plays with your feet and make a big run when it's there. Like Free did in 2010.

Cam? Really?  Dude has over 100 carries each season. Thats vick like running. Rodgers is closer to 60per year and freeman isnt too far behind those totals. Were taliing the difference of 20 or so carries over freemans career to average around that 60 mark.

I honestly think most people have no idea of what qbs in the nfl are putting up for rushing totals.

I honestly don't care how many rushes he averages per game or where he is in carries compared to other QBs. What I care about is him taking advantage of his running ability in certain and specific situations. We all have seen over the past two years those specific plays where he has the opportunity to pick up a 1st down on 3rd and __, but chooses to force a throw. It may happen one time a game, a few times a game, or sometimes may not come up for a few games, but those plays have been out there to make and there has been some hesitation. Now, I definitely don't want to see him taking off like VY, Cam, or Vick. Under 60 sounds good for a season. Just depends on the circumstances. I'm sure he will strike a happy balance this coming season between what we saw last year, and what we saw in 2010.

BINGO!

This is what I meant. in 2010 Freeman took off when he had room. He isn't going to be RGIII or Vick, he is twice as big haha. But he does have good speed for a bigger QB and when the play is there, he needs to take it!

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