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TBayXXXVII

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#75 : May 10, 2013, 02:52:25 PM

Baltimore had an excellent defense... SF and SEA have QB's that can make plays on their own.  New England always had 3 legit receiving options.  Whether 1 or 2 of them were TE's, they legit receiving weapon, so they don't fit your argument.

Yeah, Banks was a decent pick.  I see no problem with it.  What's the issue?
baltimore had the 17th ranked team defense and 12th ranked scoring defense.  kaepernick and wilson looked a lot like freeman did in 2010.  and earlier it was WR needy teams...thats why i mentioned NE.  if its just receiving options, why cant a RB be listed?  and are they TE needy with gronk and hernandez both hurt?

banks as decent?  seems a little better than a decent pick imo.  decent is what, a C+ pick?

You take out that 6 game stretch when they were 2-4 and compare Baltimore's defensive numbers vs the league and you won't come up with rankings like 17 and 12.  My memory could certainly be off, but I believe I remember them being the 8th ranked defense before the last 6 games of the season.   In that 6 game stretch they had a lot of injuries to multiple defensive players like Ellerbe, Ngata, Lewis, and Webb.  Without looking anything up, I'm pretty sure all 4 were not out at the same time, but a variation of at least 2 or 3 were during that stretch.

My overall scope is downfield receiving options, that's why New England get's a pass.  They' always had a combination of at least 3 WR's and TE.  That's why I don't count Martin.  On an occasion he can split out wide, but they certainly aren't going to do that 15-20 times per game.  In this draft, there weren't any TE's (in my opinion), that were available when the Bucs picked that deserved to be picked.  If one fell, I would have been fine with that.  Primarily though, you do need more that 2 legit NFL WR's.  Underwood, Page, Ogletree, et all, are at best #5's... super-ultra-pewter colored optimism, they're serviceable #4's.  That's not acceptable in my opinion.

You have a tempered definition of the word decent.  Synonyms = Adequate, respectable, worthy, proper... et al.  "Decent" would be a "B".
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/decent
: May 10, 2013, 02:55:06 PM TBayXXXVII

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#76 : May 10, 2013, 03:18:48 PM

  Primarily though, you do need more that 2 legit NFL WR's.  Underwood, Page, Ogletree, et all, are at best #5's... super-ultra-pewter colored optimism, they're serviceable #4's.  That's not acceptable in my opinion.


Maybe it's not needed in so much in this offense. The 3rd WR had 28 catches when both Martin and Clark were just under 50, now maybe that's the talent of the WR but more likely the design of the offense, either way that's not enough to put priority on in a run first offense anyway to me.

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#77 : May 10, 2013, 03:27:07 PM

  Primarily though, you do need more that 2 legit NFL WR's.  Underwood, Page, Ogletree, et all, are at best #5's... super-ultra-pewter colored optimism, they're serviceable #4's.  That's not acceptable in my opinion.


Maybe it's not needed in so much in this offense. The 3rd WR had 28 catches when both Martin and Clark were just under 50, now maybe that's the talent of the WR but more likely the design of the offense, either way that's not enough to put priority on in a run first offense anyway to me.

And what happens if Jackson or Williams gets hurt?  I mean, it's not unreasonable.

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#78 : May 10, 2013, 03:40:27 PM


And what happens if Jackson or Williams gets hurt?  I mean, it's not unreasonable.

Same thing as other positions on this team, I don't see a lot of great backups at other positions either, but WR might still be better off since Jackson and Williams are probably better than any position other than OG where there's more than one starter on this team.

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#79 : May 10, 2013, 04:04:14 PM


And what happens if Jackson or Williams gets hurt?  I mean, it's not unreasonable.

Same thing as other positions on this team, I don't see a lot of great backups at other positions either, but WR might still be better off since Jackson and Williams are probably better than any position other than OG where there's more than one starter on this team.

WR is different than many other positions.  You can hide weaknesses on the lines with blocking schemes.  You can hide weaknesses in the secondary by rolling coverages.  You can even hide weaknesses in the backfield with jumbo sets.  Now, you can't cover them up completely, but you can limit the exposure.  One thing you can not hide, is ineptness in space.  If you have WR's who can't catch, get separation, or run the right patterns... you are sca-rewed.  That's what this team has from WR#3 on down.  There's not a legit NFL caliber WR on this roster.  None of them even belong on the field.  Dallas had receiver troubles and let Ogletree just walk.  Page was told 'thanks, but no thanks' from every team in the NFL (not literally of course), but every team in the league had at least 9 months to take a run at the kid and they all passed.  Yeah, I know he was hurt, but we're talking about a kid who didn't even get drafted.  Every team passed on him at least 6 times... and they all passed on him even when it wouldn't cost them a penny.  Underwood was cut by New England... twice and no one other than Belicheck and Schiano gave him a 2nd glance.  If it wasn't for Schiano, there's a great chance Underwood is waiting for someone to get hurt to get a camp invite.  Owusu, Smith... seriously?

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#80 : May 10, 2013, 04:14:34 PM

i could be wrong, but not many teams have quality #3's...they have guys that the QB can find.  every team that has a quality #3 just happens to have a great QB.  odd, right?


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TBayXXXVII

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#81 : May 10, 2013, 04:38:46 PM

i could be wrong, but not many teams have quality #3's...they have guys that the QB can find.  every team that has a quality #3 just happens to have a great QB.  odd, right?

Most good teams have 3 legit downfield receiving options.  True though, the teams that do have more than 2 quality targets have good QB's.  We don't.  Which is why we need to compensate.  More on point to the article and OP, Sundquist said the Bucs should have addressed the WR position with one of the two early picks... the 2nd or the 3rd, he didn't say that instead of Banks it absolutely should have been a WR.  To that point, Banks and Allen would have been a significantly better outcome than Banks and Glennon.
: May 10, 2013, 04:41:53 PM TBayXXXVII

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#82 : May 10, 2013, 06:22:22 PM

i could be wrong, but not many teams have quality #3's...they have guys that the QB can find.  every team that has a quality #3 just happens to have a great QB.  odd, right?

No, not odd. Untrue.

#3s who are quality options, IMO.

#3WR for Packers - Nelson, Jones, or Cobb.
Andre Roberts/Michael Floyd - ARI
Golden Tate - SEA
Davone Bess - CLE
Wes Welker - DEN
Brandon Gibson - MIA
Ryan Broyles - DET
Jason Avant - PHI
Darrius Heyward Bey - IND
Keenan Allen - SD
Mario Manningham - SF
Kendall Wright - TEN





Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.

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#83 : May 10, 2013, 06:24:22 PM

Most good teams have 3 legit downfield receiving options.  True though, the teams that do have more than 2 quality targets have good QB's.  We don't.  Which is why we need to compensate.  More on point to the article and OP, Sundquist said the Bucs should have addressed the WR position with one of the two early picks... the 2nd or the 3rd, he didn't say that instead of Banks it absolutely should have been a WR.  To that point, Banks and Allen would have been a significantly better outcome than Banks and Glennon.
for the 2013 season possibly.  but its also not out of the world that ogletree/smith/crabtree has a better season in '13 than allen.  although allen doesnt really have any WR's to beat. 

i do think allen as a #1 in SD will have better stats than allen as a #3 in tampa.

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