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Spider 2 Y Banana

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#30 : May 08, 2013, 10:20:39 AM


Why are you factoring in backups when the topic is starting lineup?  Does it come in to play in games, absolutely, but thats not what this is about.  It is about ranking the starting lineups.

We will just have to agree to disagree on the OL...I give them LT advantage, and a tie at RT, but I find our G/C/G combo to be much better.  Their pass rush is better, our run D is better.  We are better at DT and at LB IMHO. 

The x factor is RG3...without him, this is a 3-4 win ball club.

Its not about the traditional 22 anymore, a nickel CB or slot reciever is a starter, they see alot of playtime, and they do not replace the guys in front of 'em, they are not like 6th man in hoops. Depending on the sheme, a 2nd TE might be a huge factor. A 3rd DE/OL is debateable, a FB or a change of pace RB might be aswell, because they are direct replacements on their position, or a just part of a less frequently used package.

But i ask myself where is this awesome talent on offense, a J Garcia would make us unstoppable with.

I agree that its not a traditional 22 anymore.  But nobody starts a game with 3 DEs.  I was just playing by the rules of the "Starting Lineup" question posed.  For me, I like our 22 starters better than theirs.  That may be homerism, but I will fully admit there are other teams whose starting 22 I would take over ours.  Those teams are SF, SEA, ATL, HOU, NE, BAL, GB, DEN, CIN, NYG, MN.

We have beaten MN the last 2 years...but I would still take their starting 22 over ours. 

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#31 : May 08, 2013, 10:26:27 AM

Um..If you took out Freeman and RG3 and put their backips in, the Redskins would win more games. Without a doubt.

Will just have to agree to disagree then.  I dont see it at all.  My views are:

Bucs Advantage Starters:
RB
RG
C
LG
WR1
WR2
DT
SLB
WLB
FS
SS
CB1
CB2

Washington Advantage:
QB
LT
TE
DE1
DE2
MLB

Will Montgomery is one of the better Centers in the league. C is not even close.
Its also hard to compare LBs position by position since they run a 3-4. If you want to attempt to and put their best OLB vs ours...kerrigan v David...then fine David. If you do it that way though, their #2 OLB Rob Jackson, is better than any of our other OLBs.
Davin is wildly overrated and inconsistent..advantage Chester, IMO.

I would say that TB has the advantage at: RB, LG, #1WR, #2WR, DT, #1OLB, #1CB, #2CB, FS, SS.
Washington: QB, RG, C, LT, FB/#3WR, TE, #1DE, #2DE, MLB, #2OLB

Other: Tie at RT and tie at #2DT/#2MLB(4-3 vs 3-4 issue again).
: May 08, 2013, 10:28:39 AM chace1986


Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.

chace1986

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#32 : May 08, 2013, 10:35:37 AM


Why are you factoring in backups when the topic is starting lineup?  Does it come in to play in games, absolutely, but thats not what this is about.  It is about ranking the starting lineups.

We will just have to agree to disagree on the OL...I give them LT advantage, and a tie at RT, but I find our G/C/G combo to be much better.  Their pass rush is better, our run D is better.  We are better at DT and at LB IMHO. 

The x factor is RG3...without him, this is a 3-4 win ball club.

Its not about the traditional 22 anymore, a nickel CB or slot reciever is a starter, they see alot of playtime, and they do not replace the guys in front of 'em, they are not like 6th man in hoops. Depending on the sheme, a 2nd TE might be a huge factor. A 3rd DE/OL is debateable, a FB or a change of pace RB might be aswell, because they are direct replacements on their position, or a just part of a less frequently used package.

But i ask myself where is this awesome talent on offense, a J Garcia would make us unstoppable with.

I agree that its not a traditional 22 anymore.  But nobody starts a game with 3 DEs.  I was just playing by the rules of the "Starting Lineup" question posed.  For me, I like our 22 starters better than theirs.  That may be homerism, but I will fully admit there are other teams whose starting 22 I would take over ours.  Those teams are SF, SEA, ATL, HOU, NE, BAL, GB, DEN, CIN, NYG, MN.

We have beaten MN the last 2 years...but I would still take their starting 22 over ours.


Its a "well technically" game. Technically, Eric Lorig would be considered a starter in a game like the Giants game since he happened to be on the field for the first play of the game...even though he was on the field for 16 of the 53 plays. I am looking at things in the scope of the 22 plays that see the field the most, rather than the player who happened to be on the field on the first play and was deemed "starter".


Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.

blind melon

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#33 : May 08, 2013, 10:39:20 AM

Any RB in Shanahan's zone blocking system is going to be successful.   Dude has that concept nailed and has done so for years...

Good on Alfred Morris.   Great pick, solid young man.   Hate his team.

Go get Bridgewater.   Do what it takes.

Lord Bortles

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#34 : May 08, 2013, 03:28:37 PM

14 seems about right IMO.  No doubt Freeman's inconsistency cost us a few spots.

Damn you Freeman. For costing us spots on some guy's opinion list!

RD 1) QB B. Bortles/ T. Bridgewater/ J. Manziel
RD 2) WR Kelvin Benjamin/ A. Robinson/ D. Adams/ M. Lee/
RD 3) OG D. Dozier/ C. Richardson/
RD 5) WR D. Archer/ J. Huff/ M. Davis/ TJ Jones/ R Grant
RD 6) OLB P Shembo/ R. Powell/ - DE A. Lynch/ M Sam  RD 7) G B. Thomas (injured)

youngone

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#35 : May 08, 2013, 08:31:13 PM

Um..If you took out Freeman and RG3 and put their backips in, the Redskins would win more games. Without a doubt.
Hell no.. We would still have the better RB, weapons on the outside and the better defense. We would win more games in the scenario.

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#36 : May 08, 2013, 08:42:38 PM

Um..If you took out Freeman and RG3 and put their backips in, the Redskins would win more games. Without a doubt.
Hell no.. We would still have the better RB, weapons on the outside and the better defense. We would win more games in the scenario.

Their RB rotation is slightly better, especially since they have a better OL. Cousins would be better than Glennon. Sure, we would have better weapons on the outside, but I'm not so sure that our defense is that much better than theirs, if at all.


Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.

CanadianBuc

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#37 : May 08, 2013, 09:07:20 PM

Um..If you took out Freeman and RG3 and put their backips in, the Redskins would win more games. Without a doubt.

You are going on a depth perspective and when you factor in the way our D BLOWS theirs away, to me it isnt even up for consideration. The Bucs had a playoff caliber offence last season and it was CLEAR. Our defence was dead last. Many analyst have personally said that during our 5 game winning streak, Josh Freeman and our Offence was the BEST in the ENTIRE NFL forget about the Redskins. Now with our improved D I dont see how we are no better then the Redskins.

Yes they beat us last year but we had a garbage D and that was why we lost not because of our O

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#38 : May 08, 2013, 09:40:40 PM

14 seems about right to me. We are a fringe playoff team that could win anywhere from 6 to 11 games. all based on Freeman playing well, or poorly. Defense, if healthy is a top 15 unit. Offense, if healthy and consistent is a top ten unit. Upside for both is top 10 D and top 7 O. I don't care about anyone ahead or below us, we could need pit every roster and the range from 8-16 is debatable based of personal opinion with stats to back up either side. In the long run, these writers rankings always will come down to QB play to separate the very good rosters from the great rosters. And Freeman has not proven to be consistent enough to have our ranking higher.

That being said, I think San Fran has a better roster than the Seahawks personally for the number 1 crown.

And this writer had us at 22 before the addition of Revis.

chace1986

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#39 : May 08, 2013, 09:58:45 PM

Um..If you took out Freeman and RG3 and put their backips in, the Redskins would win more games. Without a doubt.

You are going on a depth perspective and when you factor in the way our D BLOWS theirs away, to me it isnt even up for consideration. The Bucs had a playoff caliber offence last season and it was CLEAR. Our defence was dead last. Many analyst have personally said that during our 5 game winning streak, Josh Freeman and our Offence was the BEST in the ENTIRE NFL forget about the Redskins. Now with our improved D I dont see how we are no better then the Redskins.

Yes they beat us last year but we had a garbage D and that was why we lost not because of our O

First, our D does not blow theirs away. Their front 7 is better than ours. It remains to be seen who's D will be better. Since you are just wanting to look exclusively at 5 game winning streaks....the Redskins had one of their own from week 11-15 where they were just as good offensively.

So if the Bucs were anywhere close to the BEST in the ENTIRE NFL, they would have certainly maintained that through more than just 5 games. Ridiculous.

Sure, we had injuries last year, but so did they. Sure, we had acquisitions, but so did they.

You don't see how the Skins' could possibly be any better than the Bucs? Given that you think that LVD can "give (Von) Miller a run for his money", and other comments made, this leads me to think that you don't have that great of grasp of how talented other teams and their players actually are.

COMPLETE MATCH-UP:
QB: Broncos
RB: Buccaneers
WR: Broncos
TE: Broncos
OL: Broncos
DL: Buccaneers
LB: Toss-Up (Von Miller VS Lavonte David)
S: Buccaneers
CB: Buccaneers
ST: Buccaneers

Lavonte David can give Miller a run for his money



Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.

CanadianBuc

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#40 : May 09, 2013, 06:09:24 AM

Um..If you took out Freeman and RG3 and put their backips in, the Redskins would win more games. Without a doubt.

You are going on a depth perspective and when you factor in the way our D BLOWS theirs away, to me it isnt even up for consideration. The Bucs had a playoff caliber offence last season and it was CLEAR. Our defence was dead last. Many analyst have personally said that during our 5 game winning streak, Josh Freeman and our Offence was the BEST in the ENTIRE NFL forget about the Redskins. Now with our improved D I dont see how we are no better then the Redskins.

Yes they beat us last year but we had a garbage D and that was why we lost not because of our O

First, our D does not blow theirs away. Their front 7 is better than ours. It remains to be seen who's D will be better. Since you are just wanting to look exclusively at 5 game winning streaks....the Redskins had one of their own from week 11-15 where they were just as good offensively.

So if the Bucs were anywhere close to the BEST in the ENTIRE NFL, they would have certainly maintained that through more than just 5 games. Ridiculous.

Sure, we had injuries last year, but so did they. Sure, we had acquisitions, but so did they.

You don't see how the Skins' could possibly be any better than the Bucs? Given that you think that LVD can "give (Von) Miller a run for his money", and other comments made, this leads me to think that you don't have that great of grasp of how talented other teams and their players actually are.

COMPLETE MATCH-UP:
QB: Broncos
RB: Buccaneers
WR: Broncos
TE: Broncos
OL: Broncos
DL: Buccaneers
LB: Toss-Up (Von Miller VS Lavonte David)
S: Buccaneers
CB: Buccaneers
ST: Buccaneers

Lavonte David can give Miller a run for his money

The Redskins pass D is just as bad as ours was last year, their front 7 might have been better last season but we have the same amount of potential. If the skins did not have RGIII then they woud be a GARBAGE team. All I was saying with the "BEST in the ENTIRE NFL was that our offence is very underrated and is clearly Top-12 in the league.

BTW, Von Miller is clearly the best LB in the league but Lavonte David is quicker and with a year under his belt can be just as good. You have to look at it from a potential sort of standpoint especially when you are talking about the bucs

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#41 : May 09, 2013, 06:25:10 AM

David isn't quicker and miller only has one more year in this league so he might not have teached his full potential yet either.  David is a pretty good player overall but no one I'd talking about him being the best in the league like they do with miller.  Also, what seems to be overlooked amongst Buc fans was that David was pretty bad in pass defense. 


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#42 : May 09, 2013, 06:35:55 AM

Also love how you rank the Bucs above the Broncos in every defensive category even though the finished in the top 5 in just about every major category of defense.  Or how you rank the Bucs RB as greater even though both teams averaged exactly 114 yards a game .  Talk about homerism. 


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#43 : May 09, 2013, 07:13:24 AM

No, our front 7 doesn't have as much potential. They are also getting both Orakpo and Carriker back. You could make the argument that if any team lost their QB, then they would be garbage. I don't think that is the case with the skins because Cousins showed some promise last year when RG3 went down.

BTW, LVD is not quicker then Miller, and as S&B stated, Miller may have not even hit his ceiling yet either. Dude is a top defensive player in the league.

You also pimp the word potential, fairly often. Potential doesn't always equal, "X" playerwill be great one day.

Potential = Uncertainty.
: May 09, 2013, 08:54:06 AM chace1986


Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.

Feel Real Good

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#44 : May 09, 2013, 08:39:48 AM

Von Miller may be the most talented player in the entire NFL.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.
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