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Bucs N Beers

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#30 : May 08, 2013, 10:43:18 AM

Im happy with the DE's, although were screwed if McCoy gets hurt at DT. Regardless of Freeney and Abraham.......isnt Richard Seymour still available?

Yes he is.


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#31 : May 08, 2013, 10:45:08 AM

Im happy with the DE's, although were screwed if McCoy gets hurt at DT. Regardless of Freeney and Abraham.......isnt Richard Seymour still available?

Yeah, Spence/Landri/Gibson will be fine at NT but none of those guys has any history of pressuring the QB. It would be nice to have at least another playmaker type DT if McCoy goes down.

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#32 : May 08, 2013, 10:45:25 AM

So does this mean we suck again?

Lol
it might prevent us from reaching the playoff level and anything less is a huge disappointment.  If you are ok with being a mid tier team then great but I want more.

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PewterReportMC

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#33 : May 08, 2013, 10:45:39 AM

Maybe they dont want 1 year deals and thats all the Bucs are willing to give.
Multi-year deals aren't always multi-year deals. The Bucs gave George Selvie a 2-year deal and he lasted 2 weeks.

Well I mean maybe they wanted actual longer than 1 year guaranteed money. Bucs havent been willing to give out guaranteed money anyways. Could be the deal breaker for both sides.



The deal breaker isn't length of contract, the deal breaker is the Bucs do not want either. Bucs give out plenty of guaranteed money, just not signing bonuses, instead over the first two years.

That sucks. They must really have confidence in what they have now. I hope they are right. Id hate to see the defense get shredded to good teams again because they cant get to the passer.

Well this isn't a rush four and sit back in coverage defense. I think some are forgetting the addition of Goldson and Revis and how that will allow the Bucs to be more effective blitzing. When the Bucs brought linebackers, safeties and even cornerbacks last season opposing QBs either went to their hot reads and got the ball out quickly, or found guys running free in the secondary. Even holding coverage for literally 2-4 seconds longer will generate more sacks, or at least throws under duress.

 And personally I don't see how adding Abraham and his 10 sacks makes or breaks this defense IF Bowers can generate the same 10 sacks. And at 35, in this style defense, I think 10 sacks would be very hard to get for Abraham who would be a third-down rusher. There is only one RDE spot that plays at a time!

Trust me guys, there is a reason no one has signed the guy. Think about it. Bennett got $5 million with nine sacks and a bad shoulder the first week of free agency. Abraham with 10 sacks has barely got a look. There is a lot more than meets the eye here. And Freeney got five last year. DTN had four for a 1/5th of the money Freeney wants. Just my thoughts.

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#34 : May 08, 2013, 10:50:59 AM

Like Freeney or Abraham is the answer to the Bucs SB goal.   ::) 

Adding either or even both is not a SB winning move. Sure, maybe a few more sacks and maybe even a win or two more, but you are crazy to think either makes Tampa a SB team. They are both 1 max 2 years last piece needed players, if that. Neither has any long term potential and to a team that is still rebuilding, neither provide any real benefit to the team as a whole. In reality what signing them could do is cover up a potential future shortfall. Sign them and they play great for 1 or two years then just as the team is a SB contender, they leave, then what? Then we are back to where we are now, not knowing if McCB can get the job done. At least if we let those who we spent 1st and 2nd round picks on have a full chance to prove it, we would know. If they can't, then we get a Abraham/Freeney type because hopefully the rest of the team is SB contention ready. If McCB prove they can play and step up to the challenge, even better.

So many people just want to sign every FA there is and act like it's the end of the world if the Bucs don't sign them. Blind Melon is spot on with his comment about the LBs last year. I remember some of the same people crying for Lofton last year claiming all hope was lost if he wasn't signed. I think the LB's did OK without him. I think there is a good chance McCB can do OK this year too. And if not, then the Bucs fix the problem next year.



MC is also spot on. If they were all that and a slice of pie, why are they still FA's with little interest?
: May 08, 2013, 10:55:04 AM Freddy

Skull and Bones

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#35 : May 08, 2013, 10:55:14 AM

Freeney was injured and was playing out of position.  Also nobody is saying to replace the starters with either of these dudes per se.   Just that we could use them.  Plenty of snaps to go around.  DTN couldn't hold Freeneys jock.  The guy is a HOFer. 


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#36 : May 08, 2013, 10:57:08 AM

It takes time to build a castle. We just cannot fix everything at once.
Agree with Marc on this point. We're not the only team looking to improve the pass rush yet these guys are still available.
With a healthy Bowers and Clayborn, I for one think the DL will be vastly improved this year.

Feel Real Good

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#37 : May 08, 2013, 10:57:25 AM

And personally I don't see how adding Abraham and his 10 sacks makes or breaks this defense IF Bowers can generate the same 10 sacks. And at 35, in this style defense, I think 10 sacks would be very hard to get for Abraham who would be a third-down rusher. There is only one RDE spot that plays at a time!

Trust me guys, there is a reason no one has signed the guy. Think about it. Bennett got $5 million with nine sacks and a bad shoulder the first week of free agency. Abraham with 10 sacks has barely got a look. There is a lot more than meets the eye here. And Freeney got five last year. DTN had four for a 1/5th of the money Freeney wants. Just my thoughts.
DTN got a sack roughly every 100 times he rushed the passer. Abraham got a sack roughly every 40 times he rushed the passer. If you move DTN to a reserve role and he continues at the rate he previously played at, he's only getting 1-2 sacks for the whole season.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

Skull and Bones

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#38 : May 08, 2013, 10:57:59 AM

Like Freeney or Abraham is the answer to the Bucs SB goal.   ::) 

Adding either or even both is not a SB winning move. Sure, maybe a few more sacks and maybe even a win or two more, but you are crazy to think either makes Tampa a SB team. They are both 1 max 2 years last piece needed players, if that. Neither has any long term potential and to a team that is still rebuilding, neither provide any real benefit to the team as a whole. In reality what signing them could do is cover up a potential future shortfall. Sign them and they play great for 1 or two years then just as the team is a SB contender, they leave, then what? Then we are back to where we are now, not knowing if McCB can get the job done. At least if we let those who we spent 1st and 2nd round picks on have a full chance to prove it, we would know. If they can't, then we get a Abraham/Freeney type because hopefully the rest of the team is SB contention ready. If McCB prove they can play and step up to the challenge, even better.

So many people just want to sign every FA there is and act like it's the end of the world if the Bucs don't sign them. Blind Melon is spot on with his comment about the LBs last year. I remember some of the same people crying for Lofton last year claiming all hope was lost if he wasn't signed. I think the LB's did OK without him. I think there is a good chance McCB can do OK this year too. And if not, then the Bucs fix the problem next year.



MC is also spot on. If they were all that and a slice of pie, why are they still FA's with little interest?
both those guys will play this year and have bigger impacts than Aaron Morgan, Gholston, or DTN.


BucD

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#39 : May 08, 2013, 10:59:16 AM

Like Freeney or Abraham is the answer to the Bucs SB goal.   ::) 

Adding either or even both is not a SB winning move. Sure, maybe a few more sacks and maybe even a win or two more, but you are crazy to think either makes Tampa a SB team. They are both 1 max 2 years last piece needed players, if that. Neither has any long term potential and to a team that is still rebuilding, neither provide any real benefit to the team as a whole. In reality what signing them could do is cover up a potential future shortfall. Sign them and they play great for 1 or two years then just as the team is a SB contender, they leave, then what? Then we are back to where we are now, not knowing if McCB can get the job done. At least if we let those who we spent 1st and 2nd rtound picks on have a full chance to prove it, we would know. If they can't, then we get a Abraham/Freeney type because hopefully the rest of the team is SB contention ready. If McCB prove they can play and step up to the challenge, even better.

So many people just want to sign every FA there is and act like it's the end of the world if the Bucs don't sign them. Blind Melon is spot on with his comment about the LBs last year. I remember some of the same people crying for Lofton last year claiming all hope was lost if he wasn't signed. I think the LB's did OK without him. I think there is a good chance McCB can do OK this year too. And if not, then the Bucs fix the problem next year.

Well said, sir.

It's one thing to think that DL is a weakness of any degree.

Fine.

But we just completely revamped our secondary. Can't fix every issue in one offseason. Or just sign guys just cause we can or because someone is available.

Freeney and/or Abraham is nothing special at this point in their careers. Not to mention there are only 53 available spots.

Feel Real Good

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#40 : May 08, 2013, 10:59:57 AM

It takes time to build a castle. We just cannot fix everything at once.
That was a valid response in 2009 or 2010, but in 2013 we have a QB going into the last year of his contract who may not be back, seven players who are among the five highets paid at their positions, and a GM who hasn't been to the playoffs once in four years. The team is getting to where they need to win. If you keep waiting until next year, all the high priced vets are going to be in decline and the GM and coach will be fired.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

chace1986

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#41 : May 08, 2013, 11:01:31 AM

Maybe they dont want 1 year deals and thats all the Bucs are willing to give.
Multi-year deals aren't always multi-year deals. The Bucs gave George Selvie a 2-year deal and he lasted 2 weeks.

Well I mean maybe they wanted actual longer than 1 year guaranteed money. Bucs havent been willing to give out guaranteed money anyways. Could be the deal breaker for both sides.



The deal breaker isn't length of contract, the deal breaker is the Bucs do not want either. Bucs give out plenty of guaranteed money, just not signing bonuses, instead over the first two years.

That sucks. They must really have confidence in what they have now. I hope they are right. Id hate to see the defense get shredded to good teams again because they cant get to the passer.

Well this isn't a rush four and sit back in coverage defense. I think some are forgetting the addition of Goldson and Revis and how that will allow the Bucs to be more effective blitzing. When the Bucs brought linebackers, safeties and even cornerbacks last season opposing QBs either went to their hot reads and got the ball out quickly, or found guys running free in the secondary. Even holding coverage for literally 2-4 seconds longer will generate more sacks, or at least throws under duress.

 And personally I don't see how adding Abraham and his 10 sacks makes or breaks this defense IF Bowers can generate the same 10 sacks. And at 35, in this style defense, I think 10 sacks would be very hard to get for Abraham who would be a third-down rusher. There is only one RDE spot that plays at a time!

Trust me guys, there is a reason no one has signed the guy. Think about it. Bennett got $5 million with nine sacks and a bad shoulder the first week of free agency. Abraham with 10 sacks has barely got a look. There is a lot more than meets the eye here. And Freeney got five last year. DTN had four for a 1/5th of the money Freeney wants. Just my thoughts.

MC, its not just the issue of "10 sacks". Abraham was actually more productive as a pass rusher last year than Bennett, and that was with much fewer overall snaps. He had a higher sack rate, got QB pressures at about the same rate, and had 7 batted passes at the LOS(Bennett and the entire DL combined for 4). Considering that in a 4-3, the DEs rotate very often, a 3rd can see the field nearly 60% of the time. That is essentially a 3rd starter. I'm perfectly fine with accepting that the Bucs don't want Abraham, but a 3rd DE is important, and I think Abraham still would have plenty to offer if his attitude was right.
: May 08, 2013, 11:10:42 AM chace1986


Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.

Skull and Bones

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#42 : May 08, 2013, 11:06:06 AM

It takes time to build a castle. We just cannot fix everything at once.
That was a valid response in 2009 or 2010, but in 2013 we have a QB going into the last year of his contract who may not be back, seven players who are among the five highets paid at their positions, and a GM who hasn't been to the playoffs once in four years. The team is getting to where they need to win. If you keep waiting until next year, all the high priced vets are going to be in decline and the GM and coach will be fired.
if you truly believe the Bucs can't be Super Bowl contenders at this point then why the hell did you trade two draft picks for a 28 year old CB?


BucD

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#43 : May 08, 2013, 11:06:23 AM

Maybe they dont want 1 year deals and thats all the Bucs are willing to give.
Multi-year deals aren't always multi-year deals. The Bucs gave George Selvie a 2-year deal and he lasted 2 weeks.

Well I mean maybe they wanted actual longer than 1 year guaranteed money. Bucs havent been willing to give out guaranteed money anyways. Could be the deal breaker for both sides.



The deal breaker isn't length of contract, the deal breaker is the Bucs do not want either. Bucs give out plenty of guaranteed money, just not signing bonuses, instead over the first two years.

That sucks. They must really have confidence in what they have now. I hope they are right. Id hate to see the defense get shredded to good teams again because they cant get to the passer.

Well this isn't a rush four and sit back in coverage defense. I think some are forgetting the addition of Goldson and Revis and how that will allow the Bucs to be more effective blitzing. When the Bucs brought linebackers, safeties and even cornerbacks last season opposing QBs either went to their hot reads and got the ball out quickly, or found guys running free in the secondary. Even holding coverage for literally 2-4 seconds longer will generate more sacks, or at least throws under duress.

 And personally I don't see how adding Abraham and his 10 sacks makes or breaks this defense IF Bowers can generate the same 10 sacks. And at 35, in this style defense, I think 10 sacks would be very hard to get for Abraham who would be a third-down rusher. There is only one RDE spot that plays at a time!

Trust me guys, there is a reason no one has signed the guy. Think about it. Bennett got $5 million with nine sacks and a bad shoulder the first week of free agency. Abraham with 10 sacks has barely got a look. There is a lot more than meets the eye here. And Freeney got five last year. DTN had four for a 1/5th of the money Freeney wants. Just my thoughts.

MC, its not just the issue of "10 sacks". Abraham was actually more productive as a pass rusher last year than Bennett, and that was with much fewer overall snaps. He had a higher sack rate, got QB pressures at about the same rate, and had 7 batted passes at the LOS(Bennett and the entire DL combined for 4). Considering that in a 4-3, the DEs rotate very often, a 3rd can see the field nearly 60% of the time. That is essentially a 3rd starter. I'm perfectly fine with accepting that the Bucs don't want Abraham, but a 3rd DE is important, and I Abraham still would have plenty to offer if his attitude was right.

That "if" is apparently the issue, though. Doesn't seem like Dom and Schiano are willing to take the chance.

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#44 : May 08, 2013, 11:13:17 AM

Which is why I said that I am fine with not having him on the team if that is how they feel. What I wont do is pretend that he wouldn't be any better than anyone else on the roster, or pretend like he has nothing left.


Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.
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