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Feel Real Good

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#120 : June 12, 2013, 04:48:35 PM

Ask the Colts' GM.
haha, you'll count the starters when it works in your favor, but not when it doesnt?  the roster is pretty similar in the AFCS championship playoff year of 2010 and the missed playoffs of 2011.
What do you want me to count now?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#121 : June 12, 2013, 06:36:30 PM

BTW except of Davin Joseph, i dont think anyone of those guys mentioned is starting for us nowadays. nor anywhere else.
That's normal for every team in a league where the average career is like 3 1/2 years. Go look at the difference between the Bucs' 2002 and 2005 teams. That's the way it always is, and the 2002 Bucs were obviously great. They didn't replace all those players because they wanted to. They did it because that's how the NFL works.

If you believe the conspiracy theories, the narrative Dominik sold the Glazers when he either directly or indirectly lobbied for the GM job was that Allen and Gruden were holding back the younger players from developing by playing stopgap veterans instead. That's why so many players already on the roster were either handed starting jobs for the first time or existing young starters were re-signed. For a team that cleaned house of head coach, just about all assistant coaches, and GM, the Bucs didn't have a bunch of new starters in 2009. They only had two regular starters who weren't on the team in 2008 (Freeman and Winslow).

Conversely, another franchise that cleaned house of GM and head coach, the 2012 Indianapolis Colts, by my count had twelve regular starters who were not on the team in 2011. That's how you say you inherited horrible players. You replace them.

You are right about us just having two real new players starting on the team in '09, not accounting injuries here. (Back then and) even now i would say cleaning the house, escpecially after such horrible building years, should have been a bit more 'obvious'. My memory fooled me a bit here, because we had a lot of 'new' guys getting playtime. Im surprised here.

We had a few guys riding the bench, because of being in Grudens doghouse or just blocked by washed up veterans.  We do not know about how many guys for the outside were available to Dominik and Morris, being it the Glazers being cheap, or players not willing to gamble on their career joining this experiment. But i do not want to give them a pass just because of this uncertainty. We also added guys like Ward, who definitly did not pan out here.

Apparently Dom wanted/ had to test out the current roster first. Because one thing is different to a team like IND in 2012, they were a 10+ wins for 10 straight years just 1 year ago. They had something like an obvious core to build around or atleast try to build around, beside being 'Lucky'. Here im getting back to how Dom pretty much had to build from scratch, as if this team was an expension team, we had no (proven) building blocks in place.

But again, especially in handsight, since there were no many good players, we should cleaned the house right away.

Anyway, we want our GM to build a team to win SBs with, not just being better than Gruden/Allen.  I think Dom did not have much to start with(which i try to tell by most of my posts here, comparing him to Allen/Gruden), and seems to be on a good way. But i thinks its extremly stupid to reduce Dom's team just being build by $300M in FA.

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#122 : June 12, 2013, 07:01:53 PM

Allen took over a tight cap situation but had a roster filled with talent that was one year removed from being world champs. When Dom took over five years later in 2009, he was handed a roster that would have trouble winning games in the Arena League. THAT is Bruce Allen's legacy in Tampa. Twist it anyway you want, it won't change the truth.

baloney...  Dominik and Morris took a team that every other year made the playoffs and turned it into an expansion team. Thank God the Glazers fired Morris.  When Schiano came on board Dominik became a GM (in name only), and the results the last 2 years are due to Glazers opening their wallets and someone else making decisions on what free agents and draft picks to make.   Dominik is doing what he does best  ie " Write checks and make sure the budget restraints" are maintained. For those functions he is doing fine.

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#123 : June 12, 2013, 08:21:15 PM

Allen took over a tight cap situation but had a roster filled with talent that was one year removed from being world champs. When Dom took over five years later in 2009, he was handed a roster that would have trouble winning games in the Arena League. THAT is Bruce Allen's legacy in Tampa. Twist it anyway you want, it won't change the truth.

baloney...  Dominik and Morris took a team that every other year made the playoffs and turned it into an expansion team. Thank God the Glazers fired Morris.  When Schiano came on board Dominik became a GM (in name only), and the results the last 2 years are due to Glazers opening their wallets and someone else making decisions on what free agents and draft picks to make.   Dominik is doing what he does best  ie " Write checks and make sure the budget restraints" are maintained. For those functions he is doing fine.


This is the 2008 roster that was left by Allen and handed to Dom for the 2009 season. Please look at it and admit you are wrong.

http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/tampa-bay-buccaneers/roster/2008


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#124 : June 12, 2013, 09:41:52 PM

If the players left by Gruden and Allen were the best options, doesn't sound like they were so horrible at drafting. If the players were horrible, Dominik wouldn't have kept them. He sure didn't keep Derrick Brooks.

And I forgot he gave Antonio Bryant a new contract, too. That's another one.

Allen and Grudens drafting doesnt look better because their players were 'better' than/as good as the (cheap) FAs when Dom extended 'em.

Which WR available in 09 was comparable to Clayton, skill and contract wise? I already said i did not like that one, but still...
Which RG was available when Jospeh contract came up?
Which RRT was available when Trueblood was about to be extended?
Which MLB was available when Ruud was holding out?

How long did those guys stays once Dom had found a replacement for?

I think most people will agree, in hindsight, that resigning Black, Clayton, Joseph, Trueblood, Bryant, and Jackson was dumb.

Hindsight always 20/20, though.


Hindsight?  Plenty of folks on here called out those deals when they happened


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#125 : June 12, 2013, 09:45:51 PM

Why re-sign bad draft picks unless:

1. You're stupid
2. The players aren't actually bad
is there a middle ground?  are championship teams filled with players who "arent actually bad"?

dominik re-signed several role players, not superstars.  but keep hiding from that fact.


He made several players among the top-paid at their positions.  He spent a ton of money on GruAllen holdovers, which doesn't really support the "role player" argument


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#126 : June 12, 2013, 09:47:56 PM

If the players left by Gruden and Allen were the best options, doesn't sound like they were so horrible at drafting. If the players were horrible, Dominik wouldn't have kept them. He sure didn't keep Derrick Brooks.

And I forgot he gave Antonio Bryant a new contract, too. That's another one.

Allen and Grudens drafting doesnt look better because their players were 'better' than/as good as the (cheap) FAs when Dom extended 'em.

Which WR available in 09 was comparable to Clayton, skill and contract wise? I already said i did not like that one, but still...
Which RG was available when Jospeh contract came up?
Which RRT was available when Trueblood was about to be extended?
Which MLB was available when Ruud was holding out?

How long did those guys stays once Dom had found a replacement for?

I think most people will agree, in hindsight, that resigning Black, Clayton, Joseph, Trueblood, Bryant, and Jackson was dumb.

Hindsight always 20/20, though.


Hindsight?  Plenty of folks on here called out those deals when they happened
Ryan Sims stole some, too... Right?

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#127 : June 12, 2013, 09:49:53 PM



He made several players among the top-paid at their positions.  He spent a ton of money on GruAllen holdovers, which doesn't really support the "role player" argument
which of the holdovers do you believe are more than role players?

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#128 : June 12, 2013, 09:52:01 PM



He made several players among the top-paid at their positions.  He spent a ton of money on GruAllen holdovers, which doesn't really support the "role player" argument
which of the holdovers do you believe are more than role players?

Joseph, Black, Trueblood, Clayton all come quickly to mind


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#129 : June 12, 2013, 10:16:55 PM

Wow. I'll give you Joseph...but the other 3 are role players at best.  Probably better off just depth.

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#130 : June 12, 2013, 10:25:26 PM

Wow. I'll give you Joseph...but the other 3 are role players at best.  Probably better off just depth.

I'm basing it on how Dom signed them, not based on my opinion of their play.  The fact that he was signing guys to starter deals who were better served as depth is one reason to question his effectiveness.
: June 12, 2013, 10:27:19 PM bradentonian


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#131 : June 12, 2013, 11:14:16 PM

Allen took over a tight cap situation but had a roster filled with talent that was one year removed from being world champs. When Dom took over five years later in 2009, he was handed a roster that would have trouble winning games in the Arena League. THAT is Bruce Allen's legacy in Tampa. Twist it anyway you want, it won't change the truth.

baloney...  Dominik and Morris took a team that every other year made the playoffs and turned it into an expansion team. Thank God the Glazers fired Morris.  When Schiano came on board Dominik became a GM (in name only), and the results the last 2 years are due to Glazers opening their wallets and someone else making decisions on what free agents and draft picks to make.   Dominik is doing what he does best  ie " Write checks and make sure the budget restraints" are maintained. For those functions he is doing fine.


This is the 2008 roster that was left by Allen and handed to Dom for the 2009 season. Please look at it and admit you are wrong.

http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/tampa-bay-buccaneers/roster/2008
Actually, there s some truth in what runole says whether you want to admit or not. You can't judge Allen based on the bad coaching of Morris. With Gruden, we probably would have won more games. But let's say you are mostly right. Bad job by Dom. You set yourself up for glory by being awful and getting high picks. How else would Indy have gotten Luck or St. Louis the stash of picks for RG3? Sure New England hit it big by taking Brady late so many years ago. But what about Indy with Peyton? Should we have taken Rodgers in 2005? Sure. But a lot of other teams regret passing on him too.
The point is that Allen didn't have enough success and we all want Dom to have more. Sure the roster looks good on paper. But let's not make excuses for it and let's not diminish "weak playoff teams" in the Allen Era to make a biased point. You take the hand you're dealt. If winning 9 is enough to win the South this year, let's win 9.
Beating a dead 2008 horse is old and boring. I'd really love to be back in the playoffs, be it by skill, luck, injuries to all our rivals or whatever.

In Verner We Trust

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#132 : June 12, 2013, 11:30:16 PM

I'm not "beating a dead 2008 horse" I didn't even bring it up. Runole claimed the roster wasn't bad when Dom took over. I simply posted the actual roster so anyone in their right mind could see that it was in fact nearly void of talent.


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#133 : June 13, 2013, 12:03:03 AM

Let's just say Raheem sped up their demise.

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#134 : June 13, 2013, 12:27:49 AM

Allen took over a tight cap situation but had a roster filled with talent that was one year removed from being world champs. When Dom took over five years later in 2009, he was handed a roster that would have trouble winning games in the Arena League. THAT is Bruce Allen's legacy in Tampa. Twist it anyway you want, it won't change the truth.

baloney...  Dominik and Morris took a team that every other year made the playoffs and turned it into an expansion team. Thank God the Glazers fired Morris.  When Schiano came on board Dominik became a GM (in name only), and the results the last 2 years are due to Glazers opening their wallets and someone else making decisions on what free agents and draft picks to make.   Dominik is doing what he does best  ie " Write checks and make sure the budget restraints" are maintained. For those functions he is doing fine.

wow .even Schiano has commented about leaning on Dom and Hickey for the first draft

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