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#105 : June 12, 2013, 02:53:58 PM

So Gruden and Allen drafted horrible players, even though Dominik couldn't find better replacements and had to re-sign them. Got it.

Dom could not find replacements for and 'had to' resign 'em in his 1st, 2nd and 3rd year, when he was still looking for starters, not just replacements, at QB, TE, DT, DE, RB, LB etc. Its not like we had unlimited draft choices, nor did the Glazers opened their pockets yet.

BTW except of Davin Joseph, i dont think anyone of those guys mentioned is starting for us nowadays. nor anywhere else.

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#106 : June 12, 2013, 03:40:01 PM

FRG will probably tell us next that the raiders left a great squad for reggie mckenzie since he re-signed a couple of guys.  or the same for CLE.

i dont even understand his insistence on this thread.  dominik signed a couple of average players from the previous regime.  much ado about nothing.  we dont know why, we dont know what money restrictions there where, we dont know who morris wanted, we dont remember who else was actually available.  we do know that from allen/grudens 40 picks the re-signed 9...and none of them were/are superstars.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

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#107 : June 12, 2013, 04:03:32 PM

If the players left by Gruden and Allen were the best options, doesn't sound like they were so horrible at drafting. If the players were horrible, Dominik wouldn't have kept them. He sure didn't keep Derrick Brooks.

And I forgot he gave Antonio Bryant a new contract, too. That's another one.

Allen and Grudens drafting doesnt look better because their players were 'better' than/as good as the (cheap) FAs when Dom extended 'em.

Which WR available in 09 was comparable to Clayton, skill and contract wise? I already said i did not like that one, but still...
Which RG was available when Jospeh contract came up?
Which RRT was available when Trueblood was about to be extended?
Which MLB was available when Ruud was holding out?

How long did those guys stays once Dom had found a replacement for?

I think most people will agree, in hindsight, that resigning Black, Clayton, Joseph, Trueblood, Bryant, and Jackson was dumb.

Hindsight always 20/20, though.

Sure, but there were plenty of posters here that were against those moves at the time Dominik made them, only to have the leghumpers regurgitate the same "the FO knows more than you" bullcrap.  Now those leghumpers get indignant anytime those signings are brought up.



So Gruden and Allen drafted horrible players, even though Dominik couldn't find better replacements and had to re-sign them. Got it.

Dom could not find replacements for and 'had to' resign 'em in his 1st, 2nd and 3rd year, when he was still looking for starters, not just replacements, at QB, TE, DT, DE, RB, LB etc. Its not like we had unlimited draft choices, nor did the Glazers opened their pockets yet.

BTW except of Davin Joseph, i dont think anyone of those guys mentioned is starting for us nowadays. nor anywhere else.

It's not really a feather in Dominik's cap that the players he signed to huge contracts aren't with the team anymore.  He still overpaid them, whether they are with the team or not.


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#108 : June 12, 2013, 04:04:30 PM

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don't like where the logical conclusions take you. 


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#109 : June 12, 2013, 04:17:20 PM

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don't like where the logical conclusions take you.

Yes Dominik resigned some players that Allen drafted, no that does not mean they were good draft picks. That simple.

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#110 : June 12, 2013, 04:23:29 PM

The whole point of this thread is stupid.  Why compare the current guy to the previous guy who got fired.  Like I said, the goal is winning a championship not being better than Allen.  How's our chances of winning a Super Bowl anytime soon?  That's the standard we should be holding Dominick to.  Are we going to start comparing Schiano to Morris next so we can say he was a good hire because he is at least better than Raheem?
: June 12, 2013, 04:33:30 PM Skull and Bones


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#111 : June 12, 2013, 04:26:10 PM

For me this arguement is simple.. One guy gave me VJax, Doug, Lavonte,Gmc, darrelle, Dashon and a bunch of young guys to cheer for. The other guy gave me Charlie Garner, Tim Brown, traded for Jake Plummer, passed on Rodgers, Patrick Willis, and AP but drafted Sabby, and forced me to watch Warren Sapp, John Lynch, and Thomas Jones ball out for other teams.

I would take Dom over that buffoon everyday. JMO

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#112 : June 12, 2013, 04:26:59 PM

If the players left by Gruden and Allen were the best options, doesn't sound like they were so horrible at drafting. If the players were horrible, Dominik wouldn't have kept them. He sure didn't keep Derrick Brooks.

And I forgot he gave Antonio Bryant a new contract, too. That's another one.

Allen and Grudens drafting doesnt look better because their players were 'better' than/as good as the (cheap) FAs when Dom extended 'em.

Which WR available in 09 was comparable to Clayton, skill and contract wise? I already said i did not like that one, but still...
Which RG was available when Jospeh contract came up?
Which RRT was available when Trueblood was about to be extended?
Which MLB was available when Ruud was holding out?

How long did those guys stays once Dom had found a replacement for?

I think most people will agree, in hindsight, that resigning Black, Clayton, Joseph, Trueblood, Bryant, and Jackson was dumb.

Hindsight always 20/20, though.

Sure, but there were plenty of posters here that were against those moves at the time Dominik made them, only to have the leghumpers regurgitate the same "the FO knows more than you" bullcrap.  Now those leghumpers get indignant anytime those signings are brought up.

I can't disagree there. I have had the "the FO knows more than you" thrown at me a time or two for bringing up several of those names. People certainly foam at the mouth a little too easily.


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#113 : June 12, 2013, 04:29:13 PM

BTW except of Davin Joseph, i dont think anyone of those guys mentioned is starting for us nowadays. nor anywhere else.
That's normal for every team in a league where the average career is like 3 1/2 years. Go look at the difference between the Bucs' 2002 and 2005 teams. That's the way it always is, and the 2002 Bucs were obviously great. They didn't replace all those players because they wanted to. They did it because that's how the NFL works.

If you believe the conspiracy theories, the narrative Dominik sold the Glazers when he either directly or indirectly lobbied for the GM job was that Allen and Gruden were holding back the younger players from developing by playing stopgap veterans instead. That's why so many players already on the roster were either handed starting jobs for the first time or existing young starters were re-signed. For a team that cleaned house of head coach, just about all assistant coaches, and GM, the Bucs didn't have a bunch of new starters in 2009. They only had two regular starters who weren't on the team in 2008 (Freeman and Winslow).

Conversely, another franchise that cleaned house of GM and head coach, the 2012 Indianapolis Colts, by my count had twelve regular starters who were not on the team in 2011. That's how you say you inherited horrible players. You replace them.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#114 : June 12, 2013, 04:30:59 PM

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don't like where the logical conclusions take you.

Yes Dominik resigned some players that Allen drafted, no that does not mean they were good draft picks. That simple.
Why re-sign bad draft picks unless:

1. You're stupid
2. The players aren't actually bad

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

GameTime

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#115 : June 12, 2013, 04:34:38 PM

Conversely, another franchise that cleaned house of GM and head coach, the 2012 Indianapolis Colts, by my count had twelve regular starters who were not on the team in 2011. That's how you say you inherited horrible players. You replace them.
those horrible players in 2011, where they also the same players from to 10 win AFCS champion team of 2010?

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

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#116 : June 12, 2013, 04:36:13 PM

Conversely, another franchise that cleaned house of GM and head coach, the 2012 Indianapolis Colts, by my count had twelve regular starters who were not on the team in 2011. That's how you say you inherited horrible players. You replace them.
those horrible players in 2011, where they also the same players from to 10 win AFCS champion team of 2010?
Ask the Colts' GM.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

GameTime

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#117 : June 12, 2013, 04:36:16 PM

Why re-sign bad draft picks unless:

1. You're stupid
2. The players aren't actually bad
is there a middle ground?  are championship teams filled with players who "arent actually bad"?

dominik re-signed several role players, not superstars.  but keep hiding from that fact.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

Biggs3535

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#118 : June 12, 2013, 04:37:07 PM

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don't like where the logical conclusions take you.

Yes Dominik resigned some players that Allen drafted, no that does not mean they were good draft picks. That simple.
Why re-sign bad draft picks unless:

1. You're stupid
2. The players aren't actually bad

3.  The GM screwed up and made a mistake. 

They all have and these signing are most of Dominik's big ones.


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#119 : June 12, 2013, 04:41:26 PM

Ask the Colts' GM.
haha, you'll count the starters when it works in your favor, but not when it doesnt?  the roster is pretty similar in the AFCS championship playoff year of 2010 and the missed playoffs of 2011.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"
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