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GameTime

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#210 : June 20, 2013, 09:34:47 PM


Yeah, I was specifically talking about the decision makers/coaches and their QB's.  They've won many games... championships, and are still with the team in that time frame.  Since 2007, those 3 teams make up 6 of the 12 Super Bowl participants and 3 Championships... all with their current QB's and decision makers.
so basically it comes down to finding the right QB. In that case I certainly don't think IF the bucs can evaluate glennon in a year and not be afraid to pull the trigger again next draft

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

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#211 : June 20, 2013, 10:19:17 PM

big difference between a 6th round investment and a 3rd.  No one would have an issue if we took a QB to try and develop on day 3.

I call bullshlt on that statement. On this board, there is always something to complain about.
Plus **CENSORED**ing one

++++++++++10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Isn't it so strange that millions of Bucs fans don't all universally love every move the team makes??

This is a Buccaneer message board, right? If you don't like hearing all different kinds of opinions on the Bucs, then you are in the wrong place.

What really bothers me is the people who come in here with no particular football topic to discuss and ridicule everyone who actually does have an opinion on actual football topics regarding the Bucs. THAT is the biggest problem with this board. It only disrupts the conversation and causes discourse.

I do agree with the Jave type trolls, they bring everone down.

But the other thing that this forum lacks (and the country to be honest) is the ability to accept someone elses opinion. I'd say the vast majority of people here state their opinion, then attack anyone who disagrees.  Either with gay slurs or butt hurt inuendo or as simple as trying to declare their posts irrelevant or non football related.  I still don't think I have seen more than a small handful of threads that end with people just agreeing to disagre and moving on without insulting someone. This is due to a serious lack of or at the least inconsistant moderation of the forums and because of the losing nature of team of late. Hopefully once the team turns things around, spirits will be lifted a little and people will just relax.
: June 20, 2013, 10:38:41 PM Freddy

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#212 : June 20, 2013, 10:28:05 PM

big difference between a 6th round investment and a 3rd.  No one would have an issue if we took a QB to try and develop on day 3.

I call bullshlt on that statement. On this board, there is always something to complain about.
Plus **CENSORED**ing one

++++++++++10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Isn't it so strange that millions of Bucs fans don't all universally love every move the team makes??

This is a Buccaneer message board, right? If you don't like hearing all different kinds of opinions on the Bucs, then you are in the wrong place.


He types (in bold) while complaining about the quoted OPINIONS above . . .  ???

Just like it is your choice to offer repeated opinions about how bad you think Schiano sucks, its others' choice to offer the OPINION that there is always complaining on the site. They're both opinions . . . although some may question whether many of your remarks are actual opinions (hey, that's another opinion!)

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#213 : June 21, 2013, 12:18:15 AM

he's slow, clumsy, not very accurate under pressure, throws off his back foot regularly, rated a 5th rounder by most teams....

The Bucs drafted a project...It's waste...

They passed on Matt Barkley,  Ryan Nassib and possibly more DL or Ol line help....

If  Schiano wouldn't have tried recruiting him for Rutgers, he would have been picked up in the 5th or 6th round

Practice squad guy at best ...


: June 21, 2013, 12:23:06 AM Havok904


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#214 : June 21, 2013, 08:41:49 AM

Isn't it so strange that millions of Bucs fans don't all universally love every move the team makes??
It certainly is strange fans might not love all the moves of the team that's 24-40 the last four years.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#215 : June 21, 2013, 09:15:40 AM

Isn't it so strange that millions of Bucs fans don't all universally love every move the team makes??
It certainly is strange fans might not love all the moves of the team that's 24-40 the last four years.

Quite stupid to meassure individual moves and its decision makers by the overall record, effected by a bunch of moves of multiple decision makers, inparts already let of the hook.

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#216 : June 21, 2013, 09:23:25 AM


Yeah, I was specifically talking about the decision makers/coaches and their QB's.  They've won many games... championships, and are still with the team in that time frame.  Since 2007, those 3 teams make up 6 of the 12 Super Bowl participants and 3 Championships... all with their current QB's and decision makers.
so basically it comes down to finding the right QB. In that case I certainly don't think IF the bucs can evaluate glennon in a year and not be afraid to pull the trigger again next draft

If they take a 1st rd QB next year, it's because they don't think Glennon can be a franchise QB, which is why it's a wasted pick.  They could have waited a round or 2 to take a QB.  There are generally guys who can be starters available in the 3rd round at other positions, positions of need for the Bucs.  A backup QB is one of them.
: June 21, 2013, 09:27:15 AM TBayXXXVII

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#217 : June 21, 2013, 09:49:48 AM


Yeah, I was specifically talking about the decision makers/coaches and their QB's.  They've won many games... championships, and are still with the team in that time frame.  Since 2007, those 3 teams make up 6 of the 12 Super Bowl participants and 3 Championships... all with their current QB's and decision makers.
so basically it comes down to finding the right QB. In that case I certainly don't think IF the bucs can evaluate glennon in a year and not be afraid to pull the trigger again next draft

If they take a 1st rd QB next year, it's because they don't think Glennon can be a franchise QB, which is why it's a wasted pick.  They could have waited a round or 2 to take a QB.  There are generally guys who can be starters available in the 3rd round at other positions, positions of need for the Bucs.  A backup QB is one of them.

If they take a QB in 1st next year, it means they are not sure about Glennon being a franchise QB YET, unwilling to tie their caerer and the whole team to ONE single guy(a 3rd rounder for a reason), while clearly signaling them passing on a reasonable better looking prospect than Glennon or they know, after having seen him for 1 year in the NFL, he is NOT a franchise QB.(no QB in next years draft gives us this option)
He will not take a QB in next years draft if he does not think this guy could be a franchise QB.

If they would have waited a few rounds to pick up the last remaining(aka less talented, the guy with the lowest chance to be a franchise QB) to only be a backup,, NOT thinking he could be a franchise QB one day, THEN they would have wasted a draft pick. If its Glennon who gets passed by everyone, THEN they reached for a guy they think could be franchise QB one day with a 3rd, since they could have gotten him cheaper.

Apparently you seem to know Dom and Schiano do NOT think Glennon could be franchise QB one day. If we would have an elite QB already on the roster, i could also get the impression of Dom&Schiano ONLY seeing Glennon as a cheap backup for our elite QB...Just we have no QB at all on the roster, we need to find one. Just investing a 3rd might not cutting it, neither might just investing a 1st, in a world in which Dom& Schiano have to deliver fast.

I say, Dom is already desperatly looking for a franchise QB, since we have non yet. Us taking a QB in next years 1st will prove this in my opinion.
: June 21, 2013, 10:02:45 AM QaZ

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#218 : June 21, 2013, 10:59:25 AM

If they take a 1st rd QB next year, it's because they don't think Glennon can be a franchise QB, which is why it's a wasted pick.  They could have waited a round or 2 to take a QB.  There are generally guys who can be starters available in the 3rd round at other positions, positions of need for the Bucs.  A backup QB is one of them.
i think its semantics, but if we get a franchise QB, i couldnt care less about a 2013 3rd round pick.  i can understand one calling it wasted, but i call it an extensive search.  look at the drafts of the steelers, pats, and giants like you mentioned.  not very good.  but they have their QB so they are always a threat.  whatever it takes to get that franchise guy.

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#219 : June 21, 2013, 12:03:00 PM

If they take a 1st rd QB next year, it's because they don't think Glennon can be a franchise QB, which is why it's a wasted pick.  They could have waited a round or 2 to take a QB.  There are generally guys who can be starters available in the 3rd round at other positions, positions of need for the Bucs.  A backup QB is one of them.
i think its semantics, but if we get a franchise QB, i couldnt care less about a 2013 3rd round pick.  i can understand one calling it wasted, but i call it an extensive search.  look at the drafts of the steelers, pats, and giants like you mentioned.  not very good.  but they have their QB so they are always a threat.  whatever it takes to get that franchise guy.

You're talking about next year and the future... I'm talking about this year and the future.  As of right now, we don't have a franchise QB.  Freeman is closer to be in free agent than being re-signed.  So in essence, if you are looking for a franchise QB, odds are favoring next year.  Hope, is where you're at if you're thinking that Freeman is that guy.  There's nothing wrong with hope, but the odds just don't favor that.  Either way though, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, there's a best case, worst case, and middle ground scenario... none of which even entertain the idea of Glennon getting a real shot.  That's why it's a wasted pick.  If Dominik and Schiano came out and said there's an open competition at QB, I'll recant 100%.  Until then, the odds significantly favor Glennon never taking a snap in Tampa, barring injury.  Even then, as of right now, I'm still not so sure.  I'll have a better idea after pre-season and I see the kid play.

Yes, having that franchise QB allows you to take high risk/high reward options.  Most will fail when you do that.  You also have the luxury of having a "developmental" squad, so to speak.  The Bucs aren't there.  They don't have that luxury.  The need bodies on the field, not the sideline.

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#220 : June 21, 2013, 01:55:21 PM

It's not missing the point because the point of this thread is as useless as a bag of smashed **CENSORED**s. How can anybody, and I mean ANYBODY, start declaring any pick as being a "waste" at this point? The coaches and players don't even fully know what they have in these kids yet, let alone the rest of us whining and complaining about them on "free-to-use" online message board lol. But yes, all those who have offended me with asinine statements on this matter are thusly forgiven. As long as you go forth with some semblance of common sense.

Yes, you are missing the point and your post proves it.  You're saying that people are complaining about Glennon, and they aren't, they're complaining that the Bucs took a QB in the 3rd round.

This team has other holes to file and using that high of pick on a guy who hopefully never takes a snap, is pretty stupid.  The reason I said "hopefully never takes a snap" is because everyone, fans, coaches, management, and players alike, all hope that Freeman turns that corner and becomes a Franchise QB.  If that happens, then Glennon will never take a snap because Freeman will get a new deal.  A team in the Bucs position (having a question mark at QB), shouldn't take "projects/backups" in the middle rounds.  You either take his replacement with your first pick, or take a project late.  That's why it's fine with what New England did last year with Mallet... because they have Brady.  Both the Steelers and Giants did the same as well this year with their 4th round QB's.  It's why Buffalo took Manuel in the first.  The Jets are just as stupid for taking Smith in the 2nd.  They skipped him twice!  If I'm a Jets fan, I'd be just as upset with that pick that I am with the Glennon pick... for the same reason.

That is why it was a wasted pick.

3rd round for a back-up QB that can come in with all the same physical tools as Freeman, can take advantage of all the same weapons in the same offense, that's not a wasted pick to me. The coaching staff trusts him, so until I'm proven otherwise, I do as well. It's not likely that the coaching staff/front office were sitting around a table at that pick saying to each other: "You know guys, I feel like this is a good time to take a random QB. For no particular reason. We have these gaping holes all over the roster, but a QB we hope never sees a down in live action should be the direction we go here." There's a plan in place with Glennon. You either trust that or you don't. But either way to call the pick a waste this early is idiotic. While we're throwing out all these hypothetical scenarios, here's one for ya..... We draft, oh say, Da"monster" Moore there instead. He craps out due to poor scheme, poor coaching, poor attitude, whatever, Meanwhile Freeman takes us on yet another roller coaster season and we miss the playoffs. Meanwhile Glennon gets picked up early and the dude flat out balls for some team.... See how the hypothetical game goes both ways? Throw out all the "fan-inspired imaginary scenarios" and it comes down to the coaching staff/front office. You trust in them, or you don't. Either way, they're in a much better position to evaluate talent and team needs then us "Pewter Faithful" could even imagine being. The new regime knocked one offseason out of the park for us, so let's wait and see, and hold off on ridiculous threads like these, until the season gets started at least. Boom.

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#221 : June 21, 2013, 02:50:22 PM

Throw out all the "fan-inspired imaginary scenarios" and it comes down to the coaching staff/front office. You trust in them, or you don't. Either way, they're in a much better position to evaluate talent and team needs then us "Pewter Faithful" could even imagine being. The new regime knocked one offseason out of the park for us, so let's wait and see, and hold off on ridiculous threads like these, until the season gets started at least. Boom.
The bottom line is we know the best drafting teams usually only end up with 2-3 decent-to-good players out of each draft and we know QB's drafted outside of the top 40 only become good starters about 10% of the time. It's not a knock on Dominik or Schiano. It's just the way it is. You can trust them all you want, but it's not a trust issue. We know the way the system works for everyone whether you're God, Ozzie Newsome, Matt Millen, or Mark Dominik. You can't escape it. The weather guy is wrong on some of his prediutions, stock brokers are wrong on some of their predictions, professional handicappers are wrong on some of their predictions, and people who evaluate professional football players are wrong on some of their predictions.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#222 : June 21, 2013, 03:24:11 PM

Good Lord, let it go

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#223 : June 21, 2013, 03:26:54 PM

Throw out all the "fan-inspired imaginary scenarios" and it comes down to the coaching staff/front office. You trust in them, or you don't. Either way, they're in a much better position to evaluate talent and team needs then us "Pewter Faithful" could even imagine being. The new regime knocked one offseason out of the park for us, so let's wait and see, and hold off on ridiculous threads like these, until the season gets started at least. Boom.
The bottom line is we know the best drafting teams usually only end up with 2-3 decent-to-good players out of each draft and we know QB's drafted outside of the top 40 only become good starters about 10% of the time. It's not a knock on Dominik or Schiano. It's just the way it is. You can trust them all you want, but it's not a trust issue. We know the way the system works for everyone whether you're God, Ozzie Newsome, Matt Millen, or Mark Dominik. You can't escape it. The weather guy is wrong on some of his prediutions, stock brokers are wrong on some of their predictions, professional handicappers are wrong on some of their predictions, and people who evaluate professional football players are wrong on some of their predictions.

Still sounds like a trust issue to me FRG. You either trust that these guys were taken with a plan in place, or you do not. I get your point about the "system percentages", but it comes down to having the right plan in place for these young men to grow and develop. And again, I'm not consumed with the notion that Glennon MUST BE a starting QB. As I said, the 3rd round even for a back-up QB that has all the same physical tools as our starter is a sound investment to me. The offensive scheme wouldn't have to change too much, if at all, should Freeman, or whover the next "Franchise Guy" is, falters or goes down to injury. I do not see this as a wasted pick even in principle, let alone based on talent or the spot where he was drafted.

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#224 : June 21, 2013, 04:19:06 PM


... Either way though, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, there's a best case, worst case, and middle ground scenario... none of which even entertain the idea of Glennon getting a real shot.  That's why it's a wasted pick.  If Dominik and Schiano came out and said there's an open competition at QB, I'll recant 100%.  Until then, the odds significantly favor Glennon never taking a snap in Tampa, barring injury.  Even then, as of right now, I'm still not so sure.  I'll have a better idea after pre-season and I see the kid play.

...

Best case: Glennon unseats Freeman week 1, posts a 100+ QBR and gets us to the POs. We now can adress the rest of our team with a 2014 1st round pick, instead of a 2013 3rd rounder. The fact other teams spend their picks on the strong QB class might let a few more good non QB fall in our laps, compared to weak QB class of 2013.
Worst case: Freeman plays good enough to keep unproven Glennon on the bench all year. Doms feel the need to use another draft pick on a QB in 2014, not FULLY buying into Glennon TC and preason play. In case this guy becomes franchise QB, Glennon still holds trade value But then he was a kinda wasted pick. But to be honest with a frabhcise QB in Tampa i do not give a fq about one single wasted 3rd round pick in 2013, when we now have 10+ years to win SB with. We should be able to overcome this, dont you think? Im not scared with a Franchise QB in my corner.
Middle ground: Neither Freeman nor 2014 drafty becomes a franchise QB. Enough reason to believe Glennon atleast gets a few games to show case himself. replacing struggeling Freeman during 2013, getting 1st few games in 2014 when rookie isnt ready or unseating the struggeling 1st rounder of 2014. Btw in this case we just throw away an (additional) 1st  rounder for a non Franchise QB.

Either way, it all depends on us believing Glennon can be a franchise QB someday or not, he would not be the 1st 3rd round or later picked QB to be one. FRGs data proves this.
So far you are questioning the idea of Schiano/Dom thinking he could be a franchise QB, by pointiong out teams with Franchise QBs already on the roster useing their late rounders on backup QBs only(which i doubt already aswell btw) and FRG saying top40 drafted QBs have best chance to become franchise QBs.

Seriously why should Dom and Schiano consider Glennon as an backup QB ONLY, when they have holes elsewhere to fill, beside not having a franchise QB either? Even if in some (similar) unlikely scenarios never gets a real chance to proven himself...WHY should they do this?
: June 21, 2013, 04:22:12 PM QaZ
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