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BucNY

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#30 : July 18, 2013, 01:54:53 PM

What do  they know? Schiano almost won the Big East a few times.

Agreed, we're likely worse than we were last year.

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#31 : July 18, 2013, 02:04:27 PM

Admittedly, Barron and Goldson are more big hitter types but that doesn't mean they are liabilities in coverage. Check their stats, while neither is an Ed Reed type ball hawk, both guys have more picks and breakups than you'd think based on their reps.

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#32 : July 18, 2013, 02:07:09 PM

Admittedly, Barron and Goldson are more big hitter types but that doesn't mean they are liabilities in coverage. Check their stats, while neither is an Ed Reed type ball hawk, both guys have more picks and breakups than you'd think based on their reps.
Barron was a legit liability in 2012.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#33 : July 18, 2013, 02:09:09 PM

Admittedly, Barron and Goldson are more big hitter types but that doesn't mean they are liabilities in coverage. Check their stats, while neither is an Ed Reed type ball hawk, both guys have more picks and breakups than you'd think based on their reps.
Barron was a legit liability in 2012.

Was that due to a lack of ball/coverage skills or inexperience?  I'd argue it was the latter but this year will flush that out.

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#34 : July 18, 2013, 02:11:52 PM

Admittedly, Barron and Goldson are more big hitter types but that doesn't mean they are liabilities in coverage. Check their stats, while neither is an Ed Reed type ball hawk, both guys have more picks and breakups than you'd think based on their reps.
Barron was a legit liability in 2012.

Was that due to a lack of ball/coverage skills or inexperience?  I'd argue it was the latter but this year will flush that out.
It's not my place to say why he was a liability. I just know he was.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

captainjimbo

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#35 : July 18, 2013, 02:13:31 PM

Admittedly, Barron and Goldson are more big hitter types but that doesn't mean they are liabilities in coverage. Check their stats, while neither is an Ed Reed type ball hawk, both guys have more picks and breakups than you'd think based on their reps.
Barron was a legit liability in 2012.

Was that due to a lack of ball/coverage skills or inexperience?  I'd argue it was the latter but this year will flush that out.
It's not my place to say why he was a liability. I just know he was.
No he wasn't.  He made some bone head rookie plays but he played as well as our future HOF guy.

chace1986

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#36 : July 18, 2013, 02:19:53 PM

Check their stats??
Sorry, but PDs and INTs do not accurately show if a player is good/poor in coverage.


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#37 : July 18, 2013, 02:20:40 PM

Admittedly, Barron and Goldson are more big hitter types but that doesn't mean they are liabilities in coverage. Check their stats, while neither is an Ed Reed type ball hawk, both guys have more picks and breakups than you'd think based on their reps.
Barron was a legit liability in 2012.

Was that due to a lack of ball/coverage skills or inexperience?  I'd argue it was the latter but this year will flush that out.
It's not my place to say why he was a liability. I just know he was.
No he wasn't.  He made some bone head rookie plays but he played as well as our future HOF guy.
Most First Downs and Touchdowns Allowed

1. Roman Harper: 30
2. Mike Adams: 29
3. Mark Barron: 24

* Reshad Jones: 8
* George Wilson: 8
* Eric Weddle: 7
* Jairus Byrd: 7
* Chris Clemons: 6
* Ryan Clark: 6

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#38 : July 18, 2013, 02:23:15 PM

Check their stats??
Sorry, but PDs and INTs do not accurately show if a player is good/poor in coverage.
Right again. You're on a roll today chace.  If a guy is great in coverage he ain't going to get thrown at on every down.

chace1986

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#39 : July 18, 2013, 02:24:07 PM

Admittedly, Barron and Goldson are more big hitter types but that doesn't mean they are liabilities in coverage. Check their stats, while neither is an Ed Reed type ball hawk, both guys have more picks and breakups than you'd think based on their reps.
Barron was a legit liability in 2012.

Was that due to a lack of ball/coverage skills or inexperience?  I'd argue it was the latter but this year will flush that out.
It's not my place to say why he was a liability. I just know he was.
No he wasn't.  He made some bone head rookie plays but he played as well as our future HOF guy.

He played average. He had as much bad as he did good. He was a rookie and he played like one. Not much to lose any sleep over as he should get better, but he did have struggles in '12 and was a liability in m2m situations vs TEs and #3/#4WRs. Admitting that does not mean Barron is a terrible Safety/bad player/bust. It is just being honest and hoping that he gets it corrected.


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#40 : July 18, 2013, 02:33:09 PM

Admittedly, Barron and Goldson are more big hitter types but that doesn't mean they are liabilities in coverage. Check their stats, while neither is an Ed Reed type ball hawk, both guys have more picks and breakups than you'd think based on their reps.
Barron was a legit liability in 2012.

Was that due to a lack of ball/coverage skills or inexperience?  I'd argue it was the latter but this year will flush that out.
It's not my place to say why he was a liability. I just know he was.
No he wasn't.  He made some bone head rookie plays but he played as well as our future HOF guy.
Most First Downs and Touchdowns Allowed

1. Roman Harper: 30
2. Mike Adams: 29
3. Mark Barron: 24

* Reshad Jones: 8
* George Wilson: 8
* Eric Weddle: 7
* Jairus Byrd: 7
* Chris Clemons: 6
* Ryan Clark: 6


LOL, ole FRG at it again, only showing half the truth.....

Why do you keep repeating only half of the story? Because the other half invalidates your position? lets look at the ranking again, but this time add in the # of snaps played. Thus we get a percentage of # of 1st downs per snaps played. Notice, Barron is not even in the top 10 (worst) at giving up 1st downs.

Danny McCray DAL 347 22 6.34%
Atari Bigby SD 348 21 6.03%
Mike C. Adams DEN 528 29 5.49%
Roman Harper NO 569 30 5.27%
Jordan Babineaux TEN 438 23 5.25%
Eric Berry KC 468 22 4.70%
Quintin Mikell SL 529 24 4.54%
Tavon Wilson NE 301 13 4.32%
Malcolm Jenkins NO 466 20 4.29%
LaRon Landry NYJ 488 20 4.10%

captainjimbo

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#41 : July 18, 2013, 02:44:53 PM

I think he did well considering the circumstances.  He was a rookie.  The coaching and scheme were bad. The DL & LBs applied zero pressure.  The CBs were worse than bad and the other safety wasn't a safety.  Do I think he had a great year, not a chance.  But I see something there that's not something you can actually put a finger on that tells me this guy is going to be better than just good.  I think he lost a little confidence as the season wore on which shouldn't be a problem this year.  I think the coaching and players around him this year are much better.  He'll be use to the speed of the game.  And i don't think anyone will question whether he can knock the snot out of someone or not and you gotta love that.  What I love about the guy the most is he's a Buc.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, IIRC Lynch didn't even start his rookie year and he wasn't the fastest guy in the NFL and how'd that work out?  I've been wrong about players before and will be again.  I'm looking forward to seeing how he progresses.

captainjimbo

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#42 : July 18, 2013, 02:49:27 PM

Admittedly, Barron and Goldson are more big hitter types but that doesn't mean they are liabilities in coverage. Check their stats, while neither is an Ed Reed type ball hawk, both guys have more picks and breakups than you'd think based on their reps.
Barron was a legit liability in 2012.

Was that due to a lack of ball/coverage skills or inexperience?  I'd argue it was the latter but this year will flush that out.
It's not my place to say why he was a liability. I just know he was.
No he wasn't.  He made some bone head rookie plays but he played as well as our future HOF guy.
Most First Downs and Touchdowns Allowed

1. Roman Harper: 30
2. Mike Adams: 29
3. Mark Barron: 24

* Reshad Jones: 8
* George Wilson: 8
* Eric Weddle: 7
* Jairus Byrd: 7
* Chris Clemons: 6
* Ryan Clark: 6


LOL, ole FRG at it again, only showing half the truth.....

Why do you keep repeating only half of the story? Because the other half invalidates your position? lets look at the ranking again, but this time add in the # of snaps played. Thus we get a percentage of # of 1st downs per snaps played. Notice, Barron is not even in the top 10 (worst) at giving up 1st downs.

Danny McCray DAL 347 22 6.34%
Atari Bigby SD 348 21 6.03%
Mike C. Adams DEN 528 29 5.49%
Roman Harper NO 569 30 5.27%
Jordan Babineaux TEN 438 23 5.25%
Eric Berry KC 468 22 4.70%
Quintin Mikell SL 529 24 4.54%
Tavon Wilson NE 301 13 4.32%
Malcolm Jenkins NO 466 20 4.29%
LaRon Landry NYJ 488 20 4.10%
Careful Feddy you're breaking the NLA rule.  For those that don't know that's the No Logic Allowed rule.

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#43 : July 18, 2013, 02:55:53 PM

1. Barron's as a % of snaps comes in at 3.71%, so he's 0.39% better than the 10th worst player, or the same difference between the 10th worst player and the 7th worst player.

2. Looking at your bottom 10 list, 3 of those players are currently unemployed and 4 are projected as backups in 2013, so I'm not sure it's really helping your point to prove that Barron is better than a few players everyone knows are worthless.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

chace1986

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#44 : July 18, 2013, 02:59:25 PM

I think he did well considering the circumstances.  He was a rookie.  The coaching and scheme were bad. The DL & LBs applied zero pressure.  The CBs were worse than bad and the other safety wasn't a safety.  Do I think he had a great year, not a chance.  But I see something there that's not something you can actually put a finger on that tells me this guy is going to be better than just good.  I think he lost a little confidence as the season wore on which shouldn't be a problem this year.  I think the coaching and players around him this year are much better.  He'll be use to the speed of the game.  And i don't think anyone will question whether he can knock the snot out of someone or not and you gotta love that.  What I love about the guy the most is he's a Buc.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, IIRC Lynch didn't even start his rookie year and he wasn't the fastest guy in the NFL and how'd that work out?  I've been wrong about players before and will be again.  I'm looking forward to seeing how he progresses.

The problem/concern that I have with Barron is his coverage that has little to do with anyone else around him. There were M2M coverage plays that he had last year where the QB was able to get rid of the ball quickly to the man Barron was covering, so it would not have mattered who was rushing the passer. He had an issue with getting his head turned around last year. It was something that drove us crazy about Biggers. He would be in good position, but would try to block the WR or the ball from getting to its destination with his body, all while not turning his head. This, most of the time, will either result in a PI penalty, or a big play.
Here are some examples:



Like I said, I'm not going to lose much sleep over it, because the amount of time Barron will be in M2M coverage might just be 8-10 times a game....but at the same time, there is concern there because those 8-10 times will probably be 3rd and 3-10 yards to go plays or plays in the redzone. Plays in which the defense absolutely needs a stop to end the drive or limit points scored.
: July 18, 2013, 03:01:25 PM chace1986

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