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#60 : July 24, 2013, 09:36:28 AM

Ok, accepting that premise wouldn't you want a guy with 7-8 years or so experience and has already been a starter and has won games over a raw rookie?  Especially considering they are pretty similar from a talent perspective.  Big, decent armed pocket passer...why assume Glennon has so  much more talent than Dan O?
Wasn't Russell Wilson a raw rookie last year going up against a guys with NFL experience that have started and won couple of games?
So Glennon was drafted to be a Pro Bowl caliber starter, then?
No but Russell Wilson wasn't drafted to be that either.
I think Pete Carroll thought he was.
So he waited till the 3rd round to grab the guy he thought was a Pro Bowl starting QB? Was he just being fair and giving everybody else a shot to grab him? I mean he did have the team already pony up and pay Matt Flynn.
Many thought Wilson would be a 5th or 6th rounder so Carroll grabbed him much earlier than expected.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#61 : July 24, 2013, 09:42:31 AM


So Glennon was drafted to be a Pro Bowl caliber starter, then?
No but Russell Wilson wasn't drafted to be that either.
I think Pete Carroll thought he was.

I think both QBs were drafted because their teams thought they could...be pro bowl caliber Starters one day. The probability for was a bit lower than with 1st rounders, resulting in them getting picked in 3rd round, especially since all 32 teams define the 'draft value' of a prospect. SEA still went out and traded for Flynn, so apparently 3rd rounders are not considered the one any only answer for a teams with need at QB. We can still roll the dice in the 2014 draft and probably should,  but its an additional try then, not the only one.
So here are all the possible outcomes:

1. Freeman fulfills his promise and becomes the Bucs longterm starter and Glennon never plays.
2. Freeman stinks and Glennon becomes the Bucs longterm starter in 2014.
3. Freeman stinks and Glennon stinks.
4. Freeman stinks, the Bucs use a 1st round pick on a QB in 2014 and that QB beats out Glennon.

There's only one scenario here where picking Glennon is good, and history shows that scenario has about a 10% chance of happening.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#62 : July 24, 2013, 09:44:41 AM

Ok, accepting that premise wouldn't you want a guy with 7-8 years or so experience and has already been a starter and has won games over a raw rookie?  Especially considering they are pretty similar from a talent perspective.  Big, decent armed pocket passer...why assume Glennon has so  much more talent than Dan O?
Wasn't Russell Wilson a raw rookie last year going up against a guys with NFL experience that have started and won couple of games?
So Glennon was drafted to be a Pro Bowl caliber starter, then?
No but Russell Wilson wasn't drafted to be that either.
I think Pete Carroll thought he was.
So he waited till the 3rd round to grab the guy he thought was a Pro Bowl starting QB? Was he just being fair and giving everybody else a shot to grab him? I mean he did have the team already pony up and pay Matt Flynn.
Many thought Wilson would be a 5th or 6th rounder so Carroll grabbed him much earlier than expected.
So that means he thought he drafted a rookie Pro Bowl starter at QB in the 3rd round? Does that same thing apply to Josh McDaniels when he took Tebow in the first?

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#63 : July 24, 2013, 09:50:54 AM

Ok, accepting that premise wouldn't you want a guy with 7-8 years or so experience and has already been a starter and has won games over a raw rookie?  Especially considering they are pretty similar from a talent perspective.  Big, decent armed pocket passer...why assume Glennon has so  much more talent than Dan O?
Wasn't Russell Wilson a raw rookie last year going up against a guys with NFL experience that have started and won couple of games?
So Glennon was drafted to be a Pro Bowl caliber starter, then?
No but Russell Wilson wasn't drafted to be that either.
I think Pete Carroll thought he was.
So he waited till the 3rd round to grab the guy he thought was a Pro Bowl starting QB? Was he just being fair and giving everybody else a shot to grab him? I mean he did have the team already pony up and pay Matt Flynn.
Many thought Wilson would be a 5th or 6th rounder so Carroll grabbed him much earlier than expected.
So that means he thought he drafted a rookie Pro Bowl starter at QB in the 3rd round? Does that same thing apply to Josh McDaniels when he took Tebow in the first?
I'm sure Josh McDaniels thought he was getting a Pro Bowl QB, too. He didn't and got fired.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#64 : July 24, 2013, 09:52:48 AM

I trust Schiano to know what a NFL QB looks like.


























if the year was 1985.


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#65 : July 24, 2013, 09:58:49 AM

Ok, accepting that premise wouldn't you want a guy with 7-8 years or so experience and has already been a starter and has won games over a raw rookie?  Especially considering they are pretty similar from a talent perspective.  Big, decent armed pocket passer...why assume Glennon has so  much more talent than Dan O?
Wasn't Russell Wilson a raw rookie last year going up against a guys with NFL experience that have started and won couple of games?
So Glennon was drafted to be a Pro Bowl caliber starter, then?
No but Russell Wilson wasn't drafted to be that either.
I think Pete Carroll thought he was.
So he waited till the 3rd round to grab the guy he thought was a Pro Bowl starting QB? Was he just being fair and giving everybody else a shot to grab him? I mean he did have the team already pony up and pay Matt Flynn.
Many thought Wilson would be a 5th or 6th rounder so Carroll grabbed him much earlier than expected.
So that means he thought he drafted a rookie Pro Bowl starter at QB in the 3rd round? Does that same thing apply to Josh McDaniels when he took Tebow in the first?
I'm sure Josh McDaniels thought he was getting a Pro Bowl QB, too. He didn't and got fired.
Pete Carroll stumbled in to Russell Wilson... He wouldn't have waited that long if he believed he was a sure thing especially when they  had like 4 QBs already

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#66 : July 24, 2013, 09:59:57 AM

So much hate for the guy.  At worst we have a backup qb on the cheap that fits our offense.  That is fine for a 3rd.  Anything more than that and he's a steal.  Time will tell.
A guy who can't at least become a rotational player is not fine for a 3rd with me.

I can understand people that would rather have spent a 4th round pick for Glennon but get over it already.  A lot of people were high on Glennon and obviously Schiano was because he tried to recruit him in college. The Buc's are covering their azz incase Freeman does not work out, pretty simple.


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#67 : July 24, 2013, 10:03:52 AM

Ass coverage if he doesn't work out, negotiation leverage if he does. I don't see how anyone can disagree with the strategy.

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#68 : July 24, 2013, 10:04:37 AM

Ass coverage if he doesn't work out, negotiation leverage if he does. I don't see how anyone can disagree with the strategy.
Exactly

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#69 : July 24, 2013, 10:19:10 AM

Ok, accepting that premise wouldn't you want a guy with 7-8 years or so experience and has already been a starter and has won games over a raw rookie?  Especially considering they are pretty similar from a talent perspective.  Big, decent armed pocket passer...why assume Glennon has so  much more talent than Dan O?
Wasn't Russell Wilson a raw rookie last year going up against a guys with NFL experience that have started and won couple of games?
So Glennon was drafted to be a Pro Bowl caliber starter, then?
No but Russell Wilson wasn't drafted to be that either.
I think Pete Carroll thought he was.
So he waited till the 3rd round to grab the guy he thought was a Pro Bowl starting QB? Was he just being fair and giving everybody else a shot to grab him? I mean he did have the team already pony up and pay Matt Flynn.
Many thought Wilson would be a 5th or 6th rounder so Carroll grabbed him much earlier than expected.

Can't the same be said of Glennon and Schiano?


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#70 : July 24, 2013, 10:19:47 AM


So here are all the possible outcomes:

1. Freeman fulfills his promise and becomes the Bucs longterm starter and Glennon never plays.
2. Freeman stinks and Glennon becomes the Bucs longterm starter in 2014.
3. Freeman stinks and Glennon stinks.
4. Freeman stinks, the Bucs use a 1st round pick on a QB in 2014 and that QB beats out Glennon.

There's only one scenario here where picking Glennon is good, and history shows that scenario has about a 10% chance of happening.
According to you there is a 11% chance of a 1st rounder becomes great, if i recall correctly.

1. Fact is then we would have a good QB in Freeman and depending on how good Glennon is, we can still trade him or use him as a cheap backup to our good QB called Freeman. The 1st round in 2014 can be used somewhere else, aslong we do not rate a guy OVER Freeman.
2. Depending on how good Glennon is we either passed on a worse QB, used the 1st rounder somewhere else or we were too stupid to see the greatness of somebody else available to us in the 2014 draft, which would not be the fault of having drafted Glennon in the 3rd. Then we did not waste a 3rd rounder, we wasted out time on a bad QB evaluating GM.
3. Then we will see how the QB out of the 2014 draft performs. Having passed on one is the because we rated Glennon over him, not becaue of the 3rd rounder we used on Glennon.
4. A 1st rounder in 2014 is by default beating out Glennon? Even if, we again might have a good QB starting and depending on how good Glennon is we either trade him or have a cheap backup.

But there are a few more possible outcomes. what happens if no good prospect is avaible to us in the 2014 draft, what if we still draft and this guys stinks?

The 2014 QB is in competion with Glennon, no clue why this is a bad thing to happen.
Without Glennon there would be scenarios in which we still pass on a QB in the 2014 draft , rather trade for Glennon (or somebody else) , because the staff likes him over anybody else available to us. Having drafted Glennon or not, it does not change much about how we see the prospects in 2014.

Glennon + chance on drafting a better QB in 2014 >> HAVING to draft a QB in 2014, no matter which guy is available to us and how the staff likes him compared to Glennon.

We only pass on a BETTER QB than Glennon in 2014 if the staff rates Glennon over him before the draft with Glennon having already a year under his belt.  At worst we end up with a guy the staff like less than Glennon and i do not think this guy has a good chance becoming great then. If this correlation would be true, we should only draft players the staff does NOT like. SERIOUSLY?
No clue how Glennon keeps us from drafting great QB we LIKE in 2014. But i already did not understand how Freeamn keeps us from either.

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#71 : July 24, 2013, 10:22:35 AM

Ass coverage if he doesn't work out, negotiation leverage if he does. I don't see how anyone can disagree with the strategy.

agree with your point but to the bold, do you know where you are?  ;)

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#72 : July 24, 2013, 10:23:36 AM

Ok, accepting that premise wouldn't you want a guy with 7-8 years or so experience and has already been a starter and has won games over a raw rookie?  Especially considering they are pretty similar from a talent perspective.  Big, decent armed pocket passer...why assume Glennon has so  much more talent than Dan O?
Wasn't Russell Wilson a raw rookie last year going up against a guys with NFL experience that have started and won couple of games?
So Glennon was drafted to be a Pro Bowl caliber starter, then?
No but Russell Wilson wasn't drafted to be that either.
I think Pete Carroll thought he was.
So he waited till the 3rd round to grab the guy he thought was a Pro Bowl starting QB? Was he just being fair and giving everybody else a shot to grab him? I mean he did have the team already pony up and pay Matt Flynn.
Many thought Wilson would be a 5th or 6th rounder so Carroll grabbed him much earlier than expected.

Can't the same be said of Glennon and Schiano?
Not if you want to keep arguing.


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#73 : July 24, 2013, 10:31:15 AM

I trust Schiano to know what a NFL QB looks like.


if the year was 1985.

Then better not let him waste 1st rounders on, right? He might even trade up for one.

We might be better off with a guy Schiano does NOT like then, right? ->Freeman?lol He does not even cost draft picks.

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#74 : July 24, 2013, 10:34:20 AM

So much hate for the guy.  At worst we have a backup qb on the cheap that fits our offense.  That is fine for a 3rd.  Anything more than that and he's a steal.  Time will tell.
A guy who can't at least become a rotational player is not fine for a 3rd with me.

I can understand people that would rather have spent a 4th round pick for Glennon but get over it already.  A lot of people were high on Glennon and obviously Schiano was because he tried to recruit him in college. The Buc's are covering their azz incase Freeman does not work out, pretty simple.
There's no such thing as covering your azz at the QB position. Either you have a franchise QB or you don't. If Freeman doesn't do enough in 2013 to get extended and they start Glennon in 2014 and he isn't a franchise QB, there's no "Oh well he was only a 3rd round pick what do you expect?" That will mean six seasons for Mark Dominik with no playoffs and three for Schiano. Someone will be getting fired. You don't get a lifetime to find a franchise QB or Gruden would still be here.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.
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