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#120 : September 19, 2013, 03:54:49 AM

I am a liberal, I admit. I do have an issue with "Obamacare." The 30 hour rule for employers to provide healthcare is being abused. I work in the restaurant industry, since we have over 50 employees, our managers thought it would be convenient to hire more employees, and shorten shifts. It doesn't affect me personally, since I don't have the time to work over 30 hours as a full-time college student, but some of the older servers who settled down for waiting tables as their profession are feeling the sting.

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#121 : September 19, 2013, 04:02:43 AM

I am a liberal, I admit. I do have an issue with "Obamacare." The 30 hour rule for employers to provide healthcare is being abused. I work in the restaurant industry, since we have over 50 employees, our managers thought it would be convenient to hire more employees, and shorten shifts. It doesn't affect me personally, since I don't have the time to work over 30 hours as a full-time college student, but some of the older servers who settled down for waiting tables as their profession are feeling the sting.

One of a number of flaws with the law. In a perfect world, employers wouldn't be in the business of offering healthcare to employees at all, unless they chose to. I think employer sponsored healthcare coverage does nothing but hurt the economy. An added expense that shouldn't be necessary if government was doing it's job correctly.


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#122 : September 19, 2013, 04:48:57 AM

I am a liberal, I admit. I do have an issue with "Obamacare." The 30 hour rule for employers to provide healthcare is being abused. I work in the restaurant industry, since we have over 50 employees, our managers thought it would be convenient to hire more employees, and shorten shifts. It doesn't affect me personally, since I don't have the time to work over 30 hours as a full-time college student, but some of the older servers who settled down for waiting tables as their profession are feeling the sting.

One of a number of flaws with the law. In a perfect world, employers wouldn't be in the business of offering healthcare to employees at all, unless they chose to. I think employer sponsored healthcare coverage does nothing but hurt the economy. An added expense that shouldn't be necessary if government was doing it's job correctly.

Give President Obama credit though, he was the only one with the balls, and political ability, to pull it off in the last 50 years. All of our First World counterparts have Universal Healthcare, we were lacking. "Obamacare" isn't universal, but it is a step in the right direction, to be in sync with the rest of western civilization.

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#123 : September 19, 2013, 08:52:56 AM

Yeah, enough leading them. Let's get in sync instead.

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#124 : September 19, 2013, 01:40:33 PM

Yeah, enough leading them. Let's get in sync instead.

Are you suggesting USA had a better health care system than Europe prior to Obamacare? That is a kneeslapper right there.

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#125 : September 19, 2013, 03:51:13 PM

"Obamacare" isn't universal, but it is a step in the right direction, to be in sync with the rest of western civilization.

"A step in the right direction"    - -  funny, was it sold that way?

Btw, I spend a lot of time in some of those other western civilzations, one of them being the UK, another Belgium.  A close friend in Belgium is an entrepeneur with a successful business. He chose to stop growing the business at a point (read: employing no new people) because the tax rates were such that the return did not justify the investment.

In the UK, people buy PRIVATE INSURANCE if they can afford it because the "queue" (i.e., lines) are to long to get care.

These are not political talking points, this is REALITY.  Be careful what type of utopia you dream up in your mind, all systems have downsides and few things do more unintended harm that "good intentions."

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#126 : September 19, 2013, 04:45:05 PM


Give President Obama credit though, he was the only one with the balls, and political ability, to pull it off in the last 50 years. All of our First World counterparts have Universal Healthcare, we were lacking. "Obamacare" isn't universal, but it is a step in the right direction, to be in sync with the rest of western civilization.

Have you ever used any of these other "Universal" systems?

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#127 : September 19, 2013, 05:39:51 PM


Give President Obama credit though, he was the only one with the balls, and political ability, to pull it off in the last 50 years. All of our First World counterparts have Universal Healthcare, we were lacking. "Obamacare" isn't universal, but it is a step in the right direction, to be in sync with the rest of western civilization.

Have you ever used any of these other "Universal" systems?

I have. And hundreds of thousands of our Soldiers and their family members have while stationed in Germany.  Very state of the art health care, in my opinion.  Nothing second-rate about it.  Some of the procedures/medications used in the German system are still going to the FDA approval system.  Again, very good health care, imo.

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#128 : September 19, 2013, 09:56:10 PM


Give President Obama credit though, he was the only one with the balls, and political ability, to pull it off in the last 50 years. All of our First World counterparts have Universal Healthcare, we were lacking. "Obamacare" isn't universal, but it is a step in the right direction, to be in sync with the rest of western civilization.

Have you ever used any of these other "Universal" systems?

I have. And hundreds of thousands of our Soldiers and their family members have while stationed in Germany.  Very state of the art health care, in my opinion.  Nothing second-rate about it.  Some of the procedures/medications used in the German system are still going to the FDA approval system.  Again, very good health care, imo.


http://www.businessinsider.com/worlds-highest-effective-personal-tax-rates-2013-1

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#129 : September 19, 2013, 10:35:06 PM


I have. And hundreds of thousands of our Soldiers and their family members have while stationed in Germany.  Very state of the art health care, in my opinion.  Nothing second-rate about it.  Some of the procedures/medications used in the German system are still going to the FDA approval system.  Again, very good health care, imo.

Americans in Germany (and other European countries) have probably experienced "Universal" healthcare in the situation in which they are very good. Scraping someone off the tarmac and rushing them to the ER. After that the follow up was more than likely done by the American Military medical services. Day to day and other "mundane" services have a tendency to be less efficient to put it mildly.

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#130 : September 20, 2013, 01:49:02 AM

Not accurate - Germans doctors, clinics are used on a routine basis by Americans military members and their familes overseas- geat care.  Also routine obstetric care with thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of American babies delivered by German hospitals - we've been there since 1940s and not all OB care is available through military hospitals (one one large hospital remains at Ramstein/Landstuhl).  I regularly saw MDs for minor "routine", non-emergent care when over there.  And in my job, had to interact often w/ the medical system and evaluate the medical care that our military received. All very state of the art.
: September 20, 2013, 06:12:24 AM Morgan

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#131 : September 20, 2013, 03:04:48 AM

My family has friends and family in Canada who are happy and proud of their health system.  Not perfect - but none are.   I've also been told by a European coworker that some of our hospitals are the worst he's ever been in and remind him of the 3rd world.  Note: we work in them daily.  Many are still top notch, but some of the large chains and cash-starved rural hospitals are not where I want to see those I care about end up.  Open your eyes and pay attention to what is happening.  We need to wake up and figure something out quickly.  1) Obama care is not going to work.  2) Our system in comparison to the rest of the world has been slipping for quite awhile and is not as good as advertised.  3) For over 10 yrs, our cost of healthcare has been on an unsustainable trajectory that puts good plans out of reach for a large percentage of working families (must be nice to have a government plan these days).  4) I'd like healthcare out of the workplace so those who prefer to work in a small company or be self employed can get affordable rates for comparable coverage.  I'm not smart enough to know all of the right answers, but too many of us are gathering their supposed knowledge from the political arena, rather than looking at the facts and thinking for themselves.   And oddly enough, many of them call others "sheep" ?

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#132 : September 20, 2013, 07:52:45 AM

All politics aside on whether it is is a better system or not :

We can't afford Universal Healthcare . Bottom line. People will not be willing to pay the amount of taxes it will take to actually fund it , which will be exorbitant.  We will just add it to the debt and it WILL be the final straw that bankrupts this stupid country. Believe that.

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

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#133 : September 20, 2013, 11:47:46 AM

Not accurate - Germans doctors, clinics are used on a routine basis by Americans military members and their familes overseas- geat care.  Also routine obstetric care with thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of American babies delivered by German hospitals - we've been there since 1940s and not all OB care is available through military hospitals (one one large hospital remains at Ramstein/Landstuhl).  I regularly saw MDs for minor "routine", non-emergent care when over there.  And in my job, had to interact often w/ the medical system and evaluate the medical care that our military received. All very state of the art.

And paid for my Uncle Sam, so it was ostensibly, private.

Not saying the care is bad, just saying that the dollar has a tendency to circumvent the normal bureaucracy.

Actually Germany is probably not a great example because it is a public/private combination. Part paid by taxes but "topped up" by private insurance.
: September 20, 2013, 11:51:58 AM spartan

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#134 : September 20, 2013, 12:07:23 PM

All politics aside on whether it is is a better system or not :

We can't afford Universal Healthcare . Bottom line. People will not be willing to pay the amount of taxes it will take to actually fund it , which will be exorbitant.  We will just add it to the debt and it WILL be the final straw that bankrupts this stupid country. Believe that.

http://www.businessinsider.com/worlds-highest-effective-personal-tax-rates-2013-1
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