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Bucfucious

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#15 : August 26, 2013, 03:26:03 PM

Need and right aren't the same thing. Apparently, you seem to think that they are.

CalcuttaRain

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#16 : August 26, 2013, 04:41:14 PM

Unless Dems lose the 2016 election this is a win win for them. I don't think they really cared if it worked or not. The idea was to work to  "single payer". If it does work they will have us by the short and curlies cos they control the subsidies. If it fails they will have us by the short and curlies because insurance would have been been pretty much destroyed in the process.

Awful, isn't it? The idea that healthcare could ever be treated as a basic human need, as opposed to an exploitable, pay-to-play, for-profit industry? Just awful. The Robber Barons are rolling in their graves.

The Robber-Barrons?  How about just you and the people you work with? 

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

Dolorous Jason

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#17 : August 26, 2013, 05:26:11 PM

Food is sold for profit also and everyone needs it ...

Should that "robber baron" Publix be forced to give us all our groceries for free ?

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

Bucfucious

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#18 : August 26, 2013, 05:28:46 PM

Is healthcare more of a basic human need than food, CBW?

CBWx2

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#19 : August 26, 2013, 06:28:46 PM

Food is sold for profit also and everyone needs it ...

Should that "robber baron" Publix be forced to give us all our groceries for free ?

Is healthcare more of a basic human need than food, CBW?

Let's just examine this BS comparison for a second, shall we?

1. The very reason that SNAP exists, and that various food assistance programs throughout our nation's history existed is because food is a basic need.

2. SNAP doesn't require that Publix give food away for free, just as a single payer system doesn't require that healthcare be free. Profit earned by people providing a service is one thing. Tremendous and inexplicable profits being earned for acting as a glorified middle man  that helps drive up the price of services for the consumer, and a system that limits access to individuals unless they pay these glorified middle men or are wealthy enough to not have to is quite another. The healthcare system cannot manage without doctors and hospitals. It can manage just fine without monopolistic health insurance providers.


CalcuttaRain

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#20 : August 26, 2013, 06:39:40 PM

Food is sold for profit also and everyone needs it ...

Should that "robber baron" Publix be forced to give us all our groceries for free ?

Is healthcare more of a basic human need than food, CBW?

Let's just examine this BS comparison for a second, shall we?

1. The very reason that SNAP exists, and that various food assistance programs throughout our nation's history existed is because food is a basic need.

2. SNAP doesn't require that Publix give food away for free, just as a single payer system doesn't require that healthcare be free. Profit earned by people providing a service is one thing. Tremendous and inexplicable profits being earned for acting as a glorified middle man  that helps drive up the price of services for the consumer, and a system that limits access to individuals unless they pay these glorified middle men or are wealthy enough to not have to is quite another. The healthcare system cannot manage without doctors and hospitals. It can manage just fine without monopolistic health insurance providers.

hahaha, what a load of crap.  Doctors are one of the highest paid professions around:

http://www.therichest.com/salary/the-top-ten-highest-paying-jobs/

Healthcare companies (read: hospitals and drug makers) make a fortune in profits:

http://healthcareforamericanow.org/2013/04/08/pharma-711-billion-profits-price-gouging-seniors/


and yet you blame exclusively the companies that pay the salaries and that pay for the drugs . . . . oh wait . . .  you work in healthcare  ::)

The problem is that routine, preventative care is NOT compatible with insurance, which is PREMISED on coverage for unlikely events.  If you wnat to have a debate over how to provide routine preventative care, that is a worthwhile debate, AND THEN COVER PEOPLE WITH INSURANCE FOR CATASTRPHIC CARE . . . .  but first . . . . get the pricing for the healthcare industry in line.  What has been done to get PRICING down?


Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

Dolorous Jason

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#21 : August 26, 2013, 06:52:11 PM

Ohhhhhhh SNAP is the difference ....because Medicaid and Medicare don't exist... great justification for not making single-payer grocery stores that feed everyone equally and for free. LOL


By the way , insurance is nothing but a service also . It gives you a means to pay for a huge expense you normally wouldn't have the money on hand to pay for right away . No one was forcing you to even use that evil middle-man ( well , until the idiocy that is Obamacare was passed ) . If you'd rather,  you were welcome to save money for such an occasion , or just incur the debt and pay it off over time.


What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

CBWx2

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#22 : August 26, 2013, 06:54:56 PM

Food is sold for profit also and everyone needs it ...

Should that "robber baron" Publix be forced to give us all our groceries for free ?

Is healthcare more of a basic human need than food, CBW?

Let's just examine this BS comparison for a second, shall we?

1. The very reason that SNAP exists, and that various food assistance programs throughout our nation's history existed is because food is a basic need.

2. SNAP doesn't require that Publix give food away for free, just as a single payer system doesn't require that healthcare be free. Profit earned by people providing a service is one thing. Tremendous and inexplicable profits being earned for acting as a glorified middle man  that helps drive up the price of services for the consumer, and a system that limits access to individuals unless they pay these glorified middle men or are wealthy enough to not have to is quite another. The healthcare system cannot manage without doctors and hospitals. It can manage just fine without monopolistic health insurance providers.

hahaha, what a load of crap.  Doctors are one of the highest paid professions around:

http://www.therichest.com/salary/the-top-ten-highest-paying-jobs/

Healthcare companies (read: hospitals and drug makers) make a fortune in profits:

http://healthcareforamericanow.org/2013/04/08/pharma-711-billion-profits-price-gouging-seniors/


and yet you blame exclusively the companies that pay the salaries and that pay for the drugs . . . . oh wait . . .  you work in healthcare  ::)

So let me ask you a simple question, my simple-minded friend. If you are accusing me of being biased against for profit insurance because I work in the industry, how exactly would I be benefiting by pushing for single payer, given that the opportunity for financial gain in my profession is larger in the current system than it would be if we were to shape our system to look more like Canada's, just as an example? One of the reasons I believe in single payer is driven by the power of price control that such a system provides. How exactly does that make things more lucrative for healthcare and prescription drug providers, Vince?

The problem is that routine, preventative care is NOT compatible with insurance, which is PREMISED on coverage for unlikely events.  If you wnat to have a debate over how to provide routine preventative care, that is a worthwhile debate, AND THEN COVER PEOPLE WITH INSURANCE FOR CATASTRPHIC CARE

Preventative care and catastrophic care should be treated differently? So single payer for preventative care, but if you happen to need an angioplasty, then you have to buy insurance, and if you can't afford it, you just wait for your heart to explode? What a wonderful human being you are, Vinny.

. . . .  but first . . . . get the pricing for the healthcare industry in line.  What has been done to get PRICING down?

Nothing. For profit insurance providers neither have the power nor the motivation to control costs. They make huge profits either way. A better question for you to contemplate would be how in the current system do you see a way of ensuring that costs are contained?


spartan

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#23 : August 26, 2013, 07:24:49 PM

Unless Dems lose the 2016 election this is a win win for them. I don't think they really cared if it worked or not. The idea was to work to  "single payer". If it does work they will have us by the short and curlies cos they control the subsidies. If it fails they will have us by the short and curlies because insurance would have been been pretty much destroyed in the process.

Awful, isn't it? The idea that healthcare could ever be treated as a basic human need, as opposed to an exploitable, pay-to-play, for-profit industry? Just awful. The Robber Barons are rolling in their graves.

What's even worse are people who don't really give a crap if it is good or bad, effective or not, but simply a tool by which to gain political power.

spartan

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#24 : August 26, 2013, 07:26:01 PM


2. Tremendous and inexplicable profits being earned for acting as a glorified middle man  that helps drive up the price of services for the consumer, and a system that limits access to individuals unless they pay these glorified middle men or are wealthy enough to not have to is quite another.

Care to explain to me how the food gets from the consumer to the producer without the middleman?

CBWx2

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#25 : August 26, 2013, 07:36:04 PM

Ohhhhhhh SNAP is the difference ....because Medicaid and Medicare don't exist... great justification for not making single-payer grocery stores that feed everyone equally and for free. LOL

Are the requirements the same for SNAP and for Medicare/Medicaid? Or perhaps, are there a few extra requirements for being the beneficiary of those healthcare plans that you are leaving out?

By the way , insurance is nothing but a service also . It gives you a means to pay for a huge expense you normally wouldn't have the money on hand to pay for right away .

No way could this be done without a profit motive. No way whatsoever, right?

No one was forcing you to even use that evil middle-man ( well , until the idiocy that is Obamacare was passed ) . If you'd rather,  you were welcome to save money for such an occasion , or just incur the debt and pay it off over time.

Ah I see. If you have thousands of dollars of disposable income to store away for a healthcare emergency, then you're good. If not, then just adsorb the astronomical and crippling debt, or just die from the heart attack. Sounds reasonable. How could that possibly go wrong?


CBWx2

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#26 : August 26, 2013, 07:37:40 PM


2. Tremendous and inexplicable profits being earned for acting as a glorified middle man  that helps drive up the price of services for the consumer, and a system that limits access to individuals unless they pay these glorified middle men or are wealthy enough to not have to is quite another.

Care to explain to me how the food gets from the consumer to the producer without the middleman?

What middleman are you comparing insurance companies to, exactly?


spartan

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#27 : August 26, 2013, 07:49:33 PM


2. Tremendous and inexplicable profits being earned for acting as a glorified middle man  that helps drive up the price of services for the consumer, and a system that limits access to individuals unless they pay these glorified middle men or are wealthy enough to not have to is quite another.

Care to explain to me how the food gets from the consumer to the producer without the middleman?

What middleman are you comparing insurance companies to, exactly?

The distributor.

spartan

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#28 : August 26, 2013, 07:58:36 PM


So let me ask you a simple question, my simple-minded friend. If you are accusing me of being biased against for profit insurance because I work in the industry, how exactly would I be benefiting by pushing for single payer, given that the opportunity for financial gain in my profession is larger in the current system than it would be if we were to shape our system to look more like Canada's, just as an example? One of the reasons I believe in single payer is driven by the power of price control that such a system provides. How exactly does that make things more lucrative for healthcare and prescription drug providers, Vince?


Because that then would make you a Unionised Govt employee, which I am certain you would be ecstatic about.

And, as you are going on about the obscene profits of the Healthcare industry, most of the companies in the game are not for profit, and those that are for profit have an average profit margin of 3%, with the US average being 9.3%. Hardly pushing the envelope is it?

CBWx2

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#29 : August 26, 2013, 08:13:12 PM


So let me ask you a simple question, my simple-minded friend. If you are accusing me of being biased against for profit insurance because I work in the industry, how exactly would I be benefiting by pushing for single payer, given that the opportunity for financial gain in my profession is larger in the current system than it would be if we were to shape our system to look more like Canada's, just as an example? One of the reasons I believe in single payer is driven by the power of price control that such a system provides. How exactly does that make things more lucrative for healthcare and prescription drug providers, Vince?


Because that then would make you a Unionised Govt employee, which I am certain you would be ecstatic about.

Huh? How does it make being a provider more lucrative was the question, spartan.

And, as you are going on about the obscene profits of the Healthcare industry, most of the companies in the game are not for profit, and those that are for profit have an average profit margin of 3%, with the US average being 9.3%. Hardly pushing the envelope is it?

Link?

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