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VinBucFan

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#135 : August 22, 2013, 08:39:55 PM

Oh, that's right, the Department Of Justice is just a pawn of the gun manufacturers, right, Vin?

You mean like when you posted that op-Ed piece about a portion of the DOJ report? Lol. You're a silly little guy Illuminator

Mr. Milich

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#136 : August 22, 2013, 08:52:44 PM


Bucfucious

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#137 : August 22, 2013, 08:53:08 PM

The op-ed piece is of no importance. The DOJ study says gun ownership has risen while at the same time gun violence has declined. The DOJ study says this, not the tiny paragraph the author added.

Lol, keep clinging to that "op-ed" phrase like a life raft, Vinny.

VinBucFan

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#138 : August 22, 2013, 08:58:46 PM

The op-ed piece is of no importance. The DOJ study says gun ownership has risen while at the same time gun violence has declined. The DOJ study says this, not the tiny paragraph the author added.

Lol, keep clinging to that "op-ed" phrase like a life raft, Vinny.

You're recycling old stuff that made you look stupid before and making a meaningless bet because you've got nothing. Hold on, be right back

VinBucFan

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#139 : August 22, 2013, 09:15:39 PM

Th stupidity of Illuminator the banned gun nut on display.  I posted figures that show less guns = less gun violence and wack jobs like Illuminator say "coincidence . . . not correlation . .  attributable to other causes." Now, Illuminator makes the same claim I made in reverse:

Multiple studies agree that as gun ownership has increased, gun violence has gone down.


After calling me a coward, Illuminator pumped up his claim:

Multiple credible studies have presented undeniable proof that as gun ownership has risen, gun violence has gone down.

Now it was multiple "CREDIBLE" presenting 'UNDENIABLE PROOF" that as gun ownership has risen gun violence has gone down (the suggestion being causation, but we'll let him off that hook  . .  ) and then his courage began to fade:

Oh, that's right, the Department Of Justice is just a pawn of the gun manufacturers, right, Vin?

multiple credible reports offering UNDENIABLE PROOF became one report  . . a recycled argument . . . but keep in mind, Illuminators now single report stands for his claim that GUN OWNERSHIP UP, GUN VIOLENCE DOWN .  . lol . . .

now, Illuminator already stepped in it with this before . . he just must not recall, but keep in mind the claim:  "Gun Ownership Up, Gun violence down".  Here's the report he plucked from an op ed piece, a right wing op ed piece without thinking about it:

http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf

Now, just ignore the earlier article that says gun ownerhip has been on the decline for decades and play along with Illuminators little game, even though he has actually cited the same article himself (lol), HERE ARE THE CHERRY PICKED statistics from the DOJ report:

firearm-related homicides declined 39%, from 18,253 in
1993 to 11,101 in 2011.

Nonfatal firearm crimes declined 69%, from 1.5 million
victimizations in 1993 to 467,300 victimizations in 2011.

Of course, Illuminator leaves out a few things when making his argument GUN OWNERSHIP UP, GUN VIOLENCE DOWN.  Here we go . .

1.  During the exact same time frame as the DOJ report . .  ALL VIOLENCE IS DOWN DRAMATICALLY per the FBI's Uniformed Criem Report (lol) . . ALL VIOLENT CRIME, so of course gun violence is down:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-1

2. while ALL VIOLENT CRIME is dropping over the time in question, one form of violent crime is NOT dropping and its right in the same DOJ report Illuminator cites (roflmao):

While the number of firearm crimes declined over time, the
percentage of all violence that involved a firearm did not
change substantively, fluctuating between 6% and 9% over
the same period. In 1993, 9% of all violence was committed
with a firearm, compared to 8% in 2011

Quick . . .  what does that mean Illuminator  . . . . all violence dropping but % by gun NOT dropping?
 
Now the funniest part, this is Illuminator's argument based on "multiple" . .  um one . .  report taken out of context:

Multiple credible studies have presented undeniable proof that as gun ownership has risen, gun violence has gone down.

Note his claim "as gun ownership has risen,"  Gun ownership has been falling for 3 decades:



gun ownership declining for decades BUT the percentage of all declining violent crimes committed with a gun stays steady . .  . hmmm
: August 22, 2013, 09:36:02 PM VinBucFan

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#140 : August 22, 2013, 09:16:48 PM

A DOJ study that directly disproved your claim made me look stupid, you say?

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#141 : August 22, 2013, 09:22:26 PM

To be honest, less guns does equal less gun death (at least eventually), what it does not prove nor address is the issue do less guns equal less death?

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#142 : August 22, 2013, 09:40:59 PM

Vinnie you're freakin' lunatic.

VinBucFan

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#143 : August 22, 2013, 09:43:24 PM

To be honest, less guns does equal less gun death (at least eventually), what it does not prove nor address is the issue do less guns equal less death?

this is a good point^^^^

right, you mean take away the guns, people will still kill.  if that is what you mean, you are probably right, in part, and I think your strongest argument is that without guns certain people will kill by other means, but that is limiting the discussion to MURDER and I have been talking about violence.  As a simple matter of common sense, the very fact that guns are so accessible means that there is more gun violence then there would be with less guns because there are accidental shootings and suicides and crimes of passion that result in murder because guns are so deadly.

I think you can see supports for BOTH our positions just by looking at Australia.  Since harsh gun restrictions, gun violence is down, but knife violence is up. Also, suicides are down.  Notably, one non-suicide category impacted greatly by gun restrictions is domestic crime another is massacres (large number murder/violence by gun).  The reason?  Guns are very effective killers so they are good for mass murder and close range, personal murder like domestic violence
: August 22, 2013, 09:47:38 PM VinBucFan

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#144 : August 22, 2013, 09:44:49 PM

Vinnie you're freakin' lunatic.


VinBucFan

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#145 : August 22, 2013, 09:45:46 PM

A DOJ study that directly disproved your claim made me look stupid, you say?

No, I said you made yourself look stupid by using a portion of a DOJ report without actually thinking about what you were doing.  You did that to yourself because you're not actually interested in the truth, you're interested in your version of the truth

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#146 : August 22, 2013, 09:51:59 PM

Makes a lot of noise but when you boil it down he never says anything. Completely incompetent making an argument for his own case.

You've had at least 6 months Psycho-Boy and all you've offered are hysterics and  hype.

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#147 : August 22, 2013, 10:01:29 PM

Makes a lot of noise but when you boil it down he never says anything. Completely incompetent making an argument for his own case.

You've had at least 6 months Psycho-Boy and all you've offered are hysterics and  hype.

Durango,  I would never presume to be capable of convincing a guy like you - a guy who believes the US government brought down the WTCs - - -  - of anything as seemingly straightforward and reasonable as "more guns=more gun violence."  My argument is almost a truism and you are not a believer in simple truth, you are a believer in elaborate and convoluted conspiracies:




l-m-a-o

VinBucFan

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#148 : August 22, 2013, 10:02:27 PM

"gun logic" says you are LESS likely to bump into a tree here:



than here:





because more trees cannot equal more tree "violence" . . .  lmao     :-[

P.S.  Guns are NOT too easy to get a hold off:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/22/20138428-no-injuries-after-memphis-5-year-old-fires-gun-in-school?lite

Therein endeth the lesson . .  .
: August 22, 2013, 10:19:11 PM VinBucFan

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#149 : August 22, 2013, 10:26:34 PM

Makes a lot of noise but when you boil it down he never says anything. Completely incompetent making an argument for his own case.

You've had at least 6 months Psycho-Boy and all you've offered are hysterics and  hype.

Durango,  I would never presume to be capable of convincing a guy like you - a guy who believes the US government brought down the WTCs - - -  - of anything as seemingly straightforward and reasonable as "more guns=more gun violence."  My argument is almost a truism and you are not a believer in simple truth, you are a believer in elaborate and convoluted conspiracies:




l-m-a-o

You're simply not capable of convincing anyone . You don't have the credibility for it. You lack the intellectual honesty. You're not even capable of making an argument for your own case. Not only have you been at this for 6 months but you've been at it all day long today. Each and everyone of your engagements on this forum has ended w/ you in a full meltdown mode of personal attack. What is it you're hoping to accomplish?

You need help. Do yourself a favor and get some help. Your poor family must feel disgraced by you.


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