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VinBucFan

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« : August 23, 2013, 10:05:09 AM »

MELBOURNE, Australia -- Furious at the killing of an Australian college baseball player in Oklahoma, a senior figure in the victim's home country blamed the “gun culture” of United States for the death, saying it was “corrupting the world."

“The U.S. has chosen the pathway of illogical policy with regard to guns," Australia’s former deputy prime minister Tim Fischer said Friday. "They cannot expect not to have any criticism of it worldwide.”

“I am angry because it is corrupting the world, this gun culture of the United States.”

His remarks came as the family of slain catcher Christopher Lane struggled to understand why three teens killed him, apparently telling cops they were bored.
 
"He was a kid on the cusp of making his life," the victim’s father, Peter, told The Age newspaper in Melbourne. "He gave up a lot to follow his dreams. There's not going to be any good come out of this because it was just so senseless."

Lane, 22, had left Melbourne to attend East Central University in Ada, Oklahoma, where he was on a baseball scholarship.

Fischer said the lack of gun control in the U.S. had led to a massacre “each and every year since 1996” - in contrast to Australia, which has restrictions on firearms ownership.

He said the majority of illegally obtained guns used in crimes in Australia and Mexico had come from the U.S.

He added that he was not against guns, and kept weapons at his rural home, but added: "I am in favor of firearms sensible regulations to have the best of both worlds.

Three teenagers have been charged in what some are calling the "thrill killing" of a college baseball star after one of the suspects told officials "we were bored. We had nothing to do. We decided we'd kill somebody."

"Anybody can tomorrow go to a gun show in Oklahoma or California and buy a gun without a simple background check. That is illogical.”

He also said Australians should “think twice” before visiting the U.S.

"I’m not using the word boycott but I do say Australians should think twice and take into acct the risk of going to the USA in the circumstances that unfold there," saying visitors would be "15 times more likely to be shot dead than if they stayed in Australia, per capita."

In a statement on an a website set up to raise money for the funeral, Lane's family said they were "touched" by the donations, which by Friday morning had rocketed past the $15,000 target - topping $123,000.

“We are so grateful for everyone’s generosity and truly touched by the support we have received,” they said in a statement posted on the site. “We are blessed now be able to give Chris the farewell he deserves.”

Michael Veal, who played alongside Lane on the East Central University's baseball team, set up the fund Monday to help pay for his friend’s family to fly from Australia and receive his body, before taking it back home to be buried.

“Every cent is greatly appreciated and all donations will go right to his family! I recently spoke to Chris's father and he told me that if there is any money left over they will start a Christopher Lane Foundation,” he wrote.

Lane's body was expected to be flown back to Australia later Friday.

His American girlfriend, Sarah Harper, 22, told NBC News his killing was "the most shocking thing I've ever experienced."

James Francis Edwards Jr., 15, and Chancey Allen Luna, 16, were charged with first-degree murder Tuesday. Michael Dewayne Jones, 17, was charged with being an accessory to murder after the fact and with firing a weapon.

All were charged as adults, according to the Stephens County District Attorney’s Office.

One of three teens charged in the attack told police that they shot Lane because they “were bored” and decided to kill somebody.
 
In a chilling seven-minute 911 recording released Wednesday by prosecutors, the caller who reported the killing can be heard resisting the panic, while pleading for help.

The woman who identified herself as Joyce Smith, reported to the dispatcher that she did not know the gunshot victim.

"He was standing in the roadway and he fell over, and as I come by, he just fell over in the ditch,” she said.



Anybody pick up on the contradiction or the disconnect?  American citizens regarded favorably for their generosity in setting up and contributiing to a fund, but American gun policy looked on disfavorably. Which is actually more reflective of America, its citizens or its gun policy? IMy answer would be it's people, by far.  Not even a contest really and yet the gun policy -- insanity created by a very vocal minority -- dominates the news because its so out of step with other cultures and some might say, common sense. To be sure, there are many bad American people (the killers are a great example, obviously) but by and large this country is filled with good people with a good value system that are incredibly generous and that have basic common sense . . . . not so many in Washington though.

(Cue the defensive, xenophobic responses in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1)

Bucfucious

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« #1 : August 23, 2013, 10:29:07 AM »

Finally! Something we can agree upon. End all this squabbling once and for all. Self-determination is overrated, let some people in Australia decide for us! They'll be a neutral third party. And the family of the boy who just got shot is an excellent selection, they should be completely unbiased.

VinBucFan

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« #2 : August 23, 2013, 10:35:29 AM »

Finally! Something we can agree upon. End all this squabbling once and for all. Self-determination is overrated, let some people in Australia decide for us! They'll be a neutral third party. And the family of the boy who just got shot is an excellent selection, they should be completely unbiased.


I did mention defensive xenophobia, didnt I?


lol

Bucfucious

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« #3 : August 23, 2013, 10:46:33 AM »

Well why should we decide what's right for ourselves? Let someone else do it.

spartan

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« #4 : August 23, 2013, 10:57:48 AM »

Finally! Something we can agree upon. End all this squabbling once and for all. Self-determination is overrated, let some people in Australia decide for us! They'll be a neutral third party. And the family of the boy who just got shot is an excellent selection, they should be completely unbiased.


I did mention defensive xenophobia, didnt I?


lol

It is not xenophobic to say we don't change our way of life because of what someone in another country may or may not think about how we do things. In fact not only is it counter productive, (people get defensive), it's a little arrogant and presumptuous we should do so anyway.


Bucfucious

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« #5 : August 23, 2013, 11:02:24 AM »

And thus it is established that the counselor did mention xenophobia, he just didn't understand what the word meant.

Biggs3535

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« #6 : August 23, 2013, 11:24:26 AM »

Interesting thread topic.  Why haven't we discussed anything like this before?


Bucfucious

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« #7 : August 23, 2013, 11:31:56 AM »

Here's something: I've found that watching the counselor's routine can go from frustrating to relaxing with this one simple tip. Just play this in the background when you read his material:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj6gRX7-NgM&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DCj6gRX7-NgM

Mr. Milich

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« #8 : August 23, 2013, 11:36:55 AM »

Interesting thread topic.  Why haven't we discussed anything like this before?

It's now the gun control forum. With a side of bacon.

VinBucFan

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« #9 : August 23, 2013, 11:45:38 AM »

Well why should we decide what's right for ourselves? Let someone else do it.

fear ^^^^^

VinBucFan

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« #10 : August 23, 2013, 11:49:35 AM »

and yet here you all are.  Durango taking a break from dreams of how the US government blew up the WTC and Buggsy (Scarecrow) trying to understand all the big words in this thread with help from Illuminator (Wizard) .

Btw, if you wonder why some outside the US might have that view of this country:

"When looking just at the businesses tracked by the ATF, America’s gun industry includes 5,441 firearms makers, 1,895 manufacturers of ammunition, 48,676 dealers, 7,075 pawn brokers, 59,227 collectors and 811 importers. Just looking at the dealers, firearms outlets outnumber car dealerships almost 3 to 1 and outnumber Starbucks stores by more than 4 to 1.""

"All told, the firearms industry contributes more than $33 billion to the U.S. economy and supports about 220,000 jobs, according to the National Shooting Sports Foundation. That’s more than double the North American payrolls of General Motors, which President Barack Obama called “a pillar of our economy” when he explained the decision to provide more taxpayer aid to help save the car maker in 2009."


You guys are the pawns who think the NRA represents the 2nd Amendment. LOL  (Buggsy, you'll have to ask Illuminator what the word  "pawns" means)


 :D

VinBucFan

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« #11 : August 23, 2013, 12:04:55 PM »

Finally! Something we can agree upon. End all this squabbling once and for all. Self-determination is overrated, let some people in Australia decide for us! They'll be a neutral third party. And the family of the boy who just got shot is an excellent selection, they should be completely unbiased.


I did mention defensive xenophobia, didnt I?


lol

It is not xenophobic to say we don't change our way of life because of what someone in another country may or may not think about how we do things. In fact not only is it counter productive, (people get defensive), it's a little arrogant and presumptuous we should do so anyway.

its a typical  (and predictable) defensive and xenophobic response to read that article as some effort against "self determination." LMAO, in fact, its delusional paranoia really.  The United States has not cornered the market on wisdom, obviously. It's just criticism, not a threat against the US.  Believe it or not, the US government can be wrong.

Btw, on this topic some people are just defensive, they dont get that way . . .  there's a reason for that.


VinBucFan

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« #12 : August 23, 2013, 12:16:46 PM »

Quote

“The U.S. has chosen the pathway of illogical policy with regard to guns," Australia’s former deputy prime minister Tim Fischer said Friday. "They cannot expect not to have any criticism of it worldwide.”

“I am angry because it is corrupting the world, this gun culture of the United States.”


List of Top Gun Manufacturers:

Colt's Manufacturing Company (USA)
Founded in 1836 by Samuel Colt, the gun-manufacturer played a major role in the popularization of the revolver in the 19th century, though it did not invent the revolver concept. The gun gained popularity among numerous notable Americans, including: President Theodore Roosevelt, Buffalo Bill Cody, Wyatt Earp, Pat Garrett, Billy the Kid, and countless others. Colt weapons have been issued to U.S. military personnel since the 19th century due to their reliability and accuracy.
Known for Producing:
AR-15 (semi-automatic assault rifle that many consider the civilian version of the M-16)
Colt Defender (handgun)
Colt Single Action Army Revolver (handgun)
Colt New Frontier (handgun)
Various Colt Carbines

 Izhmash (Russia)
Founded in 1807 at the decree of Tsar Alexander I, Izhmash is most well-known for manufacturing the widely-used Kalashnikov assault rifle. The company also produces medium cannons, missiles, and guided shells for Russia as well as military motorcycles and cars.
In April, 2012, the company declared bankruptcy, and later merged with the Russian National Defense industry in November, which renamed the company's manufacturing plant "Kalashnikov" in honor of the extremely popular it produces.
Known for Producing:
Kalashnikov (also known as AK-47)

Remington Arms (USA)
Founded in 1816 by Eliphalet Remington in Ilion, New York, Remington is currently the largest domestic producer of shotguns and rifles as well as the oldest continuously operating firearms manufacturer in North America. Currently headquartered in Madison, North Carolina, Remington's products are currently sold in over 60 countries around the world.
Known for Producing:
Remington Semi-Automatic Sniper System Rifle
Several Semi-Automatic Shotguns Series'

Weatherby (USA)
Founded in 1945 by Roy Weatherby, the firearms and ammunition company is headquartered in Paso Robles, California and is best known for its high-powered magnum cartridges.
Known for Producing:
Vanguard Series 2 Back Country (sporting rifle)
Among many other sporting rifles and shotguns

Browning Arms Company (USA)
Founded in Utah in 1927 by John Browning, one of the world's most prolific firearms inventors, the Browning Arms Company has seen its designs remanufactured by numerous other gun manufacturers including: Winchester, Colt and Remington.
 Known for Producing:
Browning BPS Shotgun
A-Bolt Rifle
X-Bolt Rifle
Auto-5 Semi-Automatic Shotgun
BAR Semi-Automatic Rifle
Hi-Power 9mm Pistol

Sturm, Ruger & Co. (USA)
Based in Southport, Connecticut, the firearm manufacturing company was founded in 1949 by William B. Ruger and Alexander McCormick Sturm. Having begun in a small rented machine shop Ruger has manufactured over 20 million firearms over the past 60-plus years.
 Known for Producing:
Ruger's MK II Pistol
Ruger's MK III Pistol
 Ruger Standard
Ruger 10/22 Semi-Automatic Rifle

Armscor
 Considered one of the best manufacturers of firearms and ammunition, Armscor is based in the Philippines and owned by Squires Bingham Co., which is owned by the Tuason family, one of the richest and most powerful families in the Southeast Asian nation.
Known for Producing:
M22 Carbine Semi-Automatic Rifle

Beretta
An Italian firearms manufacturer that was established in 1526 by gunsmith Maestro Bartolomeo Beretta for the Arsenal of Venice. The weapons manufacturer has consistently produced guns for the Italian military throughout the centuries. After World War II, during which it was seized by the Germans to assist with the war effort, Beretta continued to develop firearms for the Italian army and police in addition to the civilian market. In the eighties, the U.S. Army began issuing service members the Beretta 92 pistol, also known as the "M9 Pistol."
Known for Producing:
 Beretta 92 Pistol
Beretta Model 92A1 Pistol
Beretta 96A1 Pistol

 Glock Ges.m.b.H.
Headquartered in Deutsch-Wagram, Austria, the firearms maker was founded in 1963 by engineer Gaston Glock. Best known for its line of polymer-framed pistols, which are commonly used by law enforcement agencies and military organizations around the world, the company also produces field knives, entrenching tools and apparel.
Known for Producing:
 Glock 17
Glock 19
Glock 17C
Glock 30


Biggs3535

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« #13 : August 23, 2013, 12:29:31 PM »

Durango taking a break from dreams of how the US government blew up the WTC

Because you lack any sort of self-awareness, you have no idea how ridiculous bringing up stuff like this.  And you do it damn-near all of the time.  Like most of your arguments, it's weaksauce.


VinBucFan

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« #14 : August 23, 2013, 12:31:52 PM »

Durango taking a break from dreams of how the US government blew up the WTC

Because you lack any sort of self-awareness, you have no idea how ridiculous bringing up stuff like this.  And you do it damn-near all of the time.  Like most of your arguments, it's weaksauce.


nice use of some big words and you didnt even call me "slugger."  The Wizard must be helping . . .
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